To ignore this bananas lawyers letter from ex?

[nomdeplooom]

(Namechanged to avoid further bananas behaviour)

Separated from ex husband 11 years ago. Been with partner for 10 years and have two DC by ex- 16&14yold.

To cut a very long story short - Ex has what I reckon is a personality disorder. He's been diagnosed with both severe clinical depression and bi-polar in past, but because of his behaviour, it's hard to know what's true and what's been embellished as he LOVES the dramaaaa.

The past 11 years have been pretty hairy - lots of girlfriends, only one of which stuck around for any real time - no job, mental health rollercoaster, unsettled and struggling on the whole. Lots of anger towards me and my partner. Periods of being very unreliable with contact, but until they were teens, they wanted to see him when he was able to take them, and for spells he was better. You could be certain that the good spells wouldn't last though, and usually it was no money to see them (no job for 10 years), or too ill - both physically and mentally. Most of the effort he made with them was on social media - Loads of daily texts/messages. I'd see his texts and they were embarrassingly - all teenage 'yo girlfiend!' jargon and trying to be 'one of them' - desperately compensation for a lack of real parenting. He still believes that they have a 'magical relationship' (according to his enormous ranting emails).

Fast fwd to covid - lockdown, and eldest's mental health declined and turned out she was self harming. Obviously got her help/support and in talking to counsellor she opened up about her dad and how she was struggling to deal with him - she'd go for the weekend and he'd stay in bed, his moods would be up and down, and she hated his girlfriend, who he split from but was still on the scene. Lots came out she'd never told me. This also triggered conversations with my youngest who felt similarly about her discomfort when staying with him. When lockdown eased off there was a decision to be made about going for Xmas and they eventually said they'd go (it was his turn). I got a call on xmas day asking to be picked up - his behaviour was unstable (lots of gaslighting and 'you hate me etc' - all the things he used to do to me) and it frightened them. After that everything changed - they stopped wanting to see him and they spoke much more about how they felt uncomfortable and unsafe (not in a physical sense, but in the sense that he'd put them in risky situations and didn't take care of them properly).

Because he has so much resentment against me, the kids not wanting to see him anymore has caused an increase in friction. Lots of emails demanding contact, calling me every name under the sun, and he refuses to believe it's their decision - I must have manipulated them blahblah. He pestered them on social media to the extent they blocked him and has refused to take their very valid concerns on board. We've all now blocked him on all platforms and moved home, not telling him our new address. He lives about 30mins away and turned up at their school with letters for them, which school refused to give them. They have regular nightmare about seeing him and I'm arranging counselling as it's really affected them, causing anxiety and stress. Despite this, since they stopped seeing him, my eldest has stopped self harming and got straight As in her prelims.

Today I got a letter (at my work) from a solicitor saying he's concerned about his children's welfare and that we need to put the youngest (he can't do anything about eldest as she's over 16) back in touch with him immediately. They requested a response from our solicitor.

AIBU to toss that shit in the bin and just keep ploughing onward - or does he stand a chance in court? Surely you can't force a 14 year old to do anything they don't want to do! She's adamant she doesn't want to see him and turned down an offer of mediation.

This sounds dreadful for you and your girls - but I agree get some legal advice. People on here mainly have good intentions - but most aren’t legal experts and will assume they are experts because of their individual experiences - or what they have watched on tv.

This is too important to rely on strangers

Hold onto the letter and wait. He can take you to court. In the meantime document everything the children have been through just in case it does go to court.

I know of someone in a similar position and her ex took her to court to get the children who were young teens off her. In court she had a great lawyer, he represented himself. After her lawyer had spoke about how settled the children were, doing great in school, friends etc and presented letters from the children stating what they wanted and the judge repeatedly said that this was about the children he went mental. He screamed at her and the judge. He did not get custody. He wasnt unwell, he was an abuser.

I get that he is unwell but he cannot keep the children safe. Until he is well and stable he doesn't see the children.

@nomdeploom, please please don't bin or ignore the letter. The fact that he's contacted a solicitor is worrying and must be responded to. I suggest what @ChoiceMummy says:

Re the letter. I'd respond something alone the lines of, I note your letter of x date. Unsupervised Contact for 14yo is inappropriate and not in her best interests. It is my duty to safeguard her.

Saying no more, but leaving it very much unsaid that there are issues. Any solicitor worth their salt will then start to ask difficult questions of your ex. Atm she's literally writing letters that he could be scripting! He's paying her to. She has no legal weight. So you just rebuff in the same way. He'd then have to pay for mediation (if there was no dv) and then apply to court. The speed they're moving at now, you're unlikely to get a first hearing for 2 to 3 months after all if received. And then by the time cafcass and evidence is requested would be autumn I'd have thought and possibly not even final hearing until Christmas or even next year! *And ultimately, if he's awarded contact, you simply state at each point, you made her available, you cannot manhandle and force her to attend the contact at 14 /15yo.

I have read what secret poster said. I would ignore for now and then do this if and when you receive another letter.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

I know he'd probably get legal aid with being unemployed

Legal aid isn't awarded for private proceedings on the basis of low income anymore. He isn't likely to qualify.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

I think OP is in Scotland, where Legal Aid is still available for family court proceedings

Just ignore it, you don’t have to reply to a solicitors letter and there’s piss all he can do through the courts now because of her age. He can try, but he be wasting his time.

Ignore his attention seeking tantrums and protect your DD. He’s had 14 years to sort himself out and it doesn’t seem like he’s tried very hard, and now he’s too late.

I'd contact a solicitor. Get them to listen to the younger ones position . Then if he does insist on going to court he's been given the more objective advice. Frustrating but he's not coming from a rational place he obviously refuses to listen to you who knows what's going on. I'm sorry you're going through this, and more feel for your children. My children struggle a lot with their father, his situation with mental health is similar and it's a lot for a young person to make sense of. My absolute sympathies and strength to you all.

@BigOlDingleSlinger69

It’s likely he’ll probably give up on this only to write you more and more texts and or emails. Probably splash his woe over “what your doing to him” all over his Facebook too.

Of course there is some slight possibility the court may side with him. I’d really try to get your kids into some more limited contact with him as they may resent you blocking him off totally later. As in very limited. Also this may be enough to satisfy him (even though he’ll also complain about it probably).

Despite what a poster above said courts don’t prioritise fathers above children - and I guess many fathers would say this about mothers too. The reality is a lot of people in divorce do try to cut the other parent out of the childrens life up to what in convienent for them personally, and as the majority of those who get custody are mothers when contact is ordered it’s usually with the father.
The courts don’t know you or him, only what they see in a limited amount of time and the sad truth is many mothers (or fathers if they have custody though it’s rarer) are totally willingly to lie about their children’s father to make their lives easier to move on with once they’re sick of the relationship. The courts have no way of knowing “the real truth” so they usually just split their decision down the middle of something for everyone.

I facilitated their relationship for 10 years even when he made it very hard to do so, so there’s never been any contact blocking on my part. Indeed he used this against me ‘i can’t be that bad if you allowed them to see me’.

I couldn’t force them to see/speak to him if i tried at 14&16 and i think their reasons are totally valid - at this point, i just check in with them occasionally to see how they’re feeling about it all and support them as required.

As he won't get legal aid to start any court action, the most he can do in legal terms is to start one representing himself. Is he likely to be willing and/or able to do that? If he does, the court will pay a lot of attention to your DD's wishes and in fact I think a separate guardian would be appointed for her to make sure they're heard.

@Lockheart

Your solicitor needs to respond to the letter, you don't have to give him contact immediately. Do not ignore the letter. If it goes to court that will not reflect well on you.

this, YABU if you chuck it in a bin, if it genuinely is from a solicitor and not him lying, then you need to respond to it correctly.

if you have to deal with the legal system with these people you jump thru all the hoops, because they certainly wont and it'll be the hoops they fail to jump thru that fells em.

OP, get legal advice if you like, but your best option in the situation is to do nothing. You aren’t legally obliged to answer a solicitors letter. You would have to respond to the court if proceedings were started but that hasn’t happened yet and it’s unlikely due to the age of your daughter. To go to court it sounds like he’d require legal aid, and they would be unlikely to grant it as she is too old now. Just do nothing, because every day where you do nothing time is passing and it becomes more and more unlikely he could do anything. Doing nothing is a perfectly legitimate response and is used by many men during divorce proceedings, my XH dragged his feet for years and there was nothing I could do about it until we went to court, so just stick the letter in the drawer and forget about it for now. He’s probably just blowing hot air. I very much expect a solicitor will tell you the same.

Please do not listen to advice on here. Go and see a solicitor and take it from there

I had a similar situation to you, my kids were a lot younger and there was also drugs involved. But ultimately the kids didn't feel safe with their father. Often didn't want to go, lots of broken contact etc etc.
What I would say is are you sure drugs aren't involved? It's obviously mental health but it may also be esasperated by drug taking?
My children are now safe as there is now a no contact order. But this was a very hard order to get. I have been in court multiple times and would say your best bet is to ensure you keep all evidence.

Ok. Kids are entitled to legal aid. Get your kids their own solicitor who will communicate their wishes to his solicitor & the courts if that becomes a thing.
Keep yourself safe & out of his abusive drama, support your kids & try (hard as that is) to keep doing what you're doing, protecting the wishes of your kids & ignoring his manipulative machinations.
But
Do not ignore requests for contact, it will not bode well. At the age of 14 a court will take children's wishes into consideration.
Sending a hug. Been there & it's beyond shit x

@TheReddestJohansson

OP you sound great, and I feel awful for your daughters.

My DH and I have some experience of this going legal (am being deliberately vague here). We had extensive contact with solicitors and sent many, many letters and mediation was at the core of our situation.

Mediation being offered and ignored is not a good move as it sets you up as being unreasonable (however unfair). Should this get to court he will be seen as a desperate father who tried everything to avoid court and you will be painted as the manipulative mother who ignored his reasonable attempts at resolution.

In court attempts at mediation are viewed as an essential stepping stone. If it is avoided by one party, it can cost that party very dearly. He’s being very deliberate here and you mustn’t ignore it.

I’d suggest replying and accepting the mediation.

The process involves the mediator contacting both parties separately at first. At no time will your children need to be in a room alone with him, it can be done as a family and even over zoom. It’s an INCREDIBLY positive and helpful process when done well, and may help him understand the situation better too. Yes, you both pay half, but that’s fair and may well save you thousands in court costs (in court the party who declined mediation is often held liable for both sides fees).

Please do not ignore this letter. X

this must have been what happened with me.

the ex was nuts and threatening, he wanted our child every weekend so he could get the fun time with me stuck with the school days. I wouldn't let him have our child alone, because he is evil frankly, paranoid and I am convinced he has boarderline personality disorder but he has always been too frightened of doctors to go and talk to one about his problems, because he thinks he will get locked up in a mental ward.

the school advised a council free mediation service, I contacted them, they contacted him.

we had individual meetings with them and a few joint meetings, me him and the social worker, there was a few times they spoke to our child alone but much of it was wanting us to do things, like parenting lessons etc.

he refused everything, there was talk of him seeing our child at a mediation centre, he refused, I suggested they do some kind of class together and I pick our child up after the class, he refused etc.

in the end the social worker said do what you want, we have a big enough file on him now, he wouldn't get anywhere in a court, let him make threats he probably wont go to court anyway he's all talk.

he was right, that was years ago, we dont see the ex.

@JustmeandtheKIDS2 no I don't suspect drugs - theres not been any evidence of that thus far, and his instability is more a combo of narc personality and mental health issues.

Thanks everyone - just read every response after a bit of a fitful sleep worrying about it all.

Yes to those who spotted it - we’re in Scotland, so I think he would have access to legal aid. Otherwise, I wouldn’t feel at all threatened as he has no money. That also feeds into his victim mentality - he thinks this is a crusade of some kind, where he’s being brutalised blahblah. Actually he’s just feckless and can’t see what he’s doing is harmful and more likely to cause estrangement. I’ve sent a couple responses to nins emails explaining this, but of course, I’m conspiring against him. 😵‍💫

To the person who asked - I’ve kept all of his emails just in case this ever happened - there’s definitely evidence he’s behaved badly to me through these emails, and that I’ve stated in simple terms what my DCs concerns were about seeing him, giving him examples etc, but I’m not sure about direct evidence between him and them - I’ve obvs not gone through their personal messages, and he puts on a whole persona with them anyway to be ‘on their level’. Its mainly me that gets the poisonous stuff.

Just spoke to DP about it all, and we’re going to ask our solicitor (we only have a local guy who helped up with our home purchase) for basic advice in short term - ie do we need a proper family solicitor and can he recommend someone? I think I’d prefer a specialist to respond to give the impression should he want to go further, we’re prepared. I wouldn’t want a non response to go in his favour, given what some posters have said.

Youngest is about to start counselling so not yet got evidence of how its affected her. My eldest had the most obvious problems, hence us pursuing that first, but increasingly youngest is expressing anxiety. This will obviously make that go through the roof, and that’s my biggest worry - I don’t think I’ll tell her this is happening for now, if its not absolutely necessary.

Re: mediation - that was actually my idea, and he was initially incredulous that it was necessary. Eventually he was on board, but my DCs refused to go. They’re not little enough that was can force them to do these things anymore and his emails responses really evidenced his lack of acknowledgement, which is the main reason they dont want to see him - it can’t get better if he refuses to take responsibility.

It was only when they stopped seeing him that they told me how bad it actually was - often he wouldn’t get out of bed until late afternoon, leaving them fending for themselves, cleaning the house, making their own meals etc. He’d take then out and start arguments with people, making them feel unsafe. He also relied on them for advice, telling them all his problems - overall it caused then to feel responsible for him, almost like carers and it was just too much x thats what prompted the self harm. I just want them to feel they have a voice and not being forced into a toxic situation against their will.

Sorry for weird typing - my ipad also seems to hate me!

@beachcitygirl

Ok. Kids are entitled to legal aid. Get your kids their own solicitor who will communicate their wishes to his solicitor & the courts if that becomes a thing. Keep yourself safe & out of his abusive drama, support your kids & try (hard as that is) to keep doing what you're doing, protecting the wishes of your kids & ignoring his manipulative machinations. But Do not ignore requests for contact, it will not bode well. At the age of 14 a court will take children's wishes into consideration. Sending a hug. Been there & it's beyond shit x

Will look into the legal aid for kids angle - thanks (for the advice and hug!) . Shit is the word!

I think but not sure. That children receiving legal aid is only when there is a significant consern as in significant safeguarding conserns. There for the courts will inlist a specialist like a cafcass guardian to be the voice of the child.the guardian needs their own solicitor. That's when children get legal aid.
The reason I ask about drugs is that it's quite common when you hey someone with significant mental health issues that they self medicate with drugs. Of course this isn't always. I was very very shocked that my ex was using drugs, but it kind of made sence.

@JustmeandtheKIDS2

I think but not sure. That children receiving legal aid is only when there is a significant consern as in significant safeguarding conserns. There for the courts will inlist a specialist like a cafcass guardian to be the voice of the child.the guardian needs their own solicitor. That's when children get legal aid. The reason I ask about drugs is that it's quite common when you hey someone with significant mental health issues that they self medicate with drugs. Of course this isn't always. I was very very shocked that my ex was using drugs, but it kind of made sence.

Nope. I'm in Scotland & it's definitely available & not only for safeguarding.

Why on Earth would the OP do that ? Unless she has lots of spare money to burn. ?

Any decent solicitor will tell her they can write to his solicitor in the manner I suggested . Why would she pay £200 for someone else to write on her behalf.
The time to engage a solicitor is when someone has ACTUALLY MADE an application. Not when they are simply posturing and causing drama. Terrible mistake to entertain this nonsense . It only encourages more of the same.

Write to his solicitor your self. Tell him to make an application in the normal way. If he does that - and you feel l the need for a solicitor ( vast majority now self represent ) then engage one then if you do not feel competent to explain to the court your daughters thoughts on the matter. Although it's really not hard. It's not like you have to concoct some brilliant defence. You simply have to say what happened.
Your daughter may have to talk to CAFCASS to ascertain ' Gillick competence' which at 14 will almost certainly be proved. Whereby her reasons will be heard by the court.

Going to a solicitor at this point where there are no proceedings just your ex's drama really would be pointless.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

Sadly my own DD was forced at 13. A Cafcass officer recommended EOW despite my ex being violent towards her and being charged with
assault. Social workers were against it but to no avail. Thankfully he lost interest before further damage was done.

I would urge posters to watch Despatches.

Gillick competence is being invoked on this thread but that relates to medical treatment not contact arrangements.

Genuinely, seeing a good family law specialist will be worth the money here. I think a good, strongly worded solicitors letter might make a big difference here. It should set out the significant welfare concerns your daughters have disclosed, their effects on the children, the professionals to whom the children have disclosed these concerns, and the young person affected’s right to a say in this (this tends to be a bigger thing in Scotland than in rUK), and so on.

He can’t bother you about a 16 year old. But the 14 year old does get a say here.

Glad to hear you're speaking to a solicitor - as you say, if it's not his line of work and he can't help, he'll know someone who can. Good luck, but I think a solicitor's letter replying to your exh will send him running OR show him up as so deranged, his solicitor will refuse to act for him.