AIBU - help me with some perspective on this?

[floatsomeandjetsum]

Ok, here are the main points,

Unmarried to partner, 20 years. 3 children with him.
I've always earned well but in a career that's been hard and incredibly stressful. It's been a slog and come at a cost to my health.

He's a fairly low earner, more a lifestyle business than anything.

I've paid all childcare and school fees, all holiday clubs, music lessons etc. basically everything for the children I've paid for. All hobbies etc.

We've rented for 10 years whilst property prices have almost escaped us.

I've always saved hard, at great personal expense in that I've gone without in order to do that.

Here's the problem - I've bought a house, which was always our plan. It's almost bought with cash from my savings (no inheritance and no contributions from him) and I've secured a small mortgage.

He hates it and will not get on board, he's basically saying it's him or the house.

Can I have a reality check please? He's contributing absolutely nothing to a big, beautiful detached 4 bed house, with a small mortgage (that I'll pay off in a few years) but it's costing me our relationship!!

I feel so beaten. What's going on here???

can't move past the fact that you bought a property for your whole family to live in without your DP's express agreement. If I were him I'd feel hurt, angry and disrespected beyond measure

It’s her money. She can do what she likes with it. She could light cigarettes with £50 notes if she wanted to. He’s shown her precious little respect in 20 years of her bankrolling him.

@blueshoes

OP: Goodness me!! How do you think families work? Who do you think does all this stuff? It doesn't suddenly disappear if you get a good job!

It's called juggling - many many many women do this!

I have friends in this earning bracket who do precisely what OP does. They are burnt out but yes, women can be high earners in the 200K bracket and still do the bulk of the housework, wifework and headspace, whilst organising cleaners and child care and school runs.

This is real life, not lalaland.

That’s jokes. No one I know who earns that does their own cleaning and housework. It’s outsourced. If they do the ‘wifework’ whatever that is, then they should be using their high level skills to sort out the partnership with their spouse.

Another drip feed there, I do all the school runs and kid stuff, yet actually they are part time boarded and gone 8-6 every day! The more you post the less like a couple you sound, and the more you sound like your main priority is you. You have been with a passionate farmer for 20 years yet you won’t stretch to a farm when you easily could adjust that mortgage, it isn’t ‘can’t afford’ like you first said, it’s ‘don’t want to’ as you’ve said since. Yet you expect him to be greatful for this house that doesn’t consider him.

@Babyroobs

It's an odd situation. Firstly that their doesn't seem to have been any joint finances despite 20 years together and 3 kids. If he is the lower earner has he had more input in terms of looking after the kids/ stuff around the house etc ? If a man had done this and the woman was the lower earner there would be outcry that her name should be on the house deeds etc.

Yes it is odd, I'm aware of that. On the outside we appear a happy and close couple!

I think keeping everything separate stemmed from me having absolutely nothing, being extremely vulnerable when I was young and wanting to protect myself and my children from any threat of being vulnerable again. He clearly was never in a position to provide for us financially in the way I could so it remained that way.

I know if I was a man and did this there would be outrage. I get that.

@Unsureaboutit9

Another drip feed there, I do all the school runs and kid stuff, yet actually they are part time boarded and gone 8-6 every day! The more you post the less like a couple you sound, and the more you sound like your main priority is you. You have been with a passionate farmer for 20 years yet you won’t stretch to a farm when you easily could adjust that mortgage, it isn’t ‘can’t afford’ like you first said, it’s ‘don’t want to’ as you’ve said since. Yet you expect him to be greatful for this house that doesn’t consider him.

Hold on, why do I have to buy the farm? Genuine question!!

He's been perfectly capable of a high paying career but chose a different path. Why does it fall to me? What's your reason?

I'm confused over you saying he pays 10 months rent out of 12...do you mean he pays almost all of your rent? That's a pretty huge contribution tbf, and I'm not surprised you've managed to save aggressively.

You say you've bought land - can you build on this / extend the plot / buy a different plot of land to build your family home on? That would seem the obvious solution to me.

I can feel your frustration, OP, but the fact that the prospect of splitting upsets you means you need to pause the house purchase and talk.

...As in couples therapy, hash-it-out talk. He's not really making any kind of compromise, is he? Yet you're also not acting like someone who's been in a happy 20-year relationship.

@HappeeInParis

Look at Gabriel Oak. Owned a flock of sheep but they fell off a cliff. Being a farmer only worked out for him once he married Bathsheba who owned a farm.

I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed this contribution to the thread.

Me too!

It’shermoney. She can do what she likes with it. She could light cigarettes with £50 notes if she wanted to. He’s shown her precious little respect in 20 years of her bankrolling him.

I'd be right there with you if OP was a mid-20s city lawyer with no kids and they'd been together 6 months. This is a completely different scenario and after a 20-year partnership, with children, an investment this size needs to be a joint decision, doesn't matter who's paying. It's not just about the money is it - it's where your family lives, grows and puts down its roots, all massive joint endeavours. But maybe that's the underlying problem here, that OP and DP are not on the same page with a lot of that. I can't see that either of them is in the wrong over the other and hope, as a family, that they can resolve it.

"I know if I was a man and did this there would be outrage. I get that."

Yes if a high earning man did that to his dp who was a hardworking nurse there would be an absolute outcry

Of course I can get a mortgage, a massive one if I wanted it!

Then why did you say you "simply can't afford" a more expensive property?

How do you do eight school runs per week when your children board?

How do you have time for all these school runs for your boarder children when you're in such a stressful job?

I don't think YABU OP. From what I've read he wanted to go into farming because he loves it, and this has meant you had to earn more money to enable him to do this and live the life the do.

So heres a scenario which I think might sum it up, but in reverse.

When I met DP after getting my degree, I really wanted to bake cakes. DP, wanting me to be happy said go ahead. I love baking. I love my job, but it doesn't pay very much. I could've gotten a much higher paying job, but I wanted to do someting I love instead. DP decided he would get into a career where he could earn great money, but I know he hates it and its very stressful to the point he has suffered health wise over it.
But I didn't want to get a different job to help out more because I love baking cakes.
We have DC and DP takes on 100% of the childcare, with the exception of maybe a couple of school runs a week, as I work 7 days a week at my baking. He does all housework, sorts home admin and buys everything for the dc including private school and pays half the bills. The rest he is saving so we can buy a house. I pay most of the rent though and half the bills, but I don't mind because I really love my job and dp pays for everything else.
Because of my baking, we don't ever get to go on holiday as a family so DP takes the dc away so I can carry on baking, as it gets busy in the summer. He pays for their holidays but I think they have a nice time without me.
DP has had a pay increase over the years and recently sold a business so we're really fine financially. But he wants to buy a big house with the money he has made. We looked at it and it was ok, but there is no room for my cookers and I don't want to live in a big fancy house where I can't bake. Even though I can carry on baking where I currently bake.

I want DP to spend more money and buy a house with a big kitchen so I can be happy baking. he says he can't afford it and hes really tired and doesnt want a big morrtgage because wants to stop working so much as the years go by , so this would be security for our future.

I think hes being really selfish. I want to bake. It makes me happy. I think he should spend more money on a house that I want. AIBU to tell him to buy a house that I want with a kitchen and everything or I'll just leave.He enabled me to work in a job that I love, by doing one he doesn't, but why should I sacrifice my kitchen just because he doesn't want to take out a big mortgage? he's being selfish

I don’t think you should buy a farm, I was pointing out that you said you were upset because he wanted land and you can’t afford it, but then since you’ve said a couple of times that you could have a bigger mortgage easily but don’t want to (and have ignored everyone asking if he can go on the mortgage, fair enough - you don’t need to answer), and you don’t want a farm, so it’s not about the cost, you don’t want one.

And I totally disagree with your judgement of his career, you clearly have spent york working life prioritising money despite hating your career, that’s absolutely your choice, but he chose to do something he actually loves. There isn’t anything wrong with not being a huge money driven person, what’s wrong with working hard and enjoying your job? I don’t think that means he should have to live somewhere he hates. You don’t want land that’s fine, but you judge him by your own standards and desires even though you’ve known him 20+ years and it’s clearly not working for you - or you wouldn’t be here asking for advice.

If he did leave, would he actually be able to continue renting the farm where you live.

We're not married though.

In your position, no matter how the immediate difficulty with the house resolves itself, I'd keep it that way.

Wanting land for ponies when he's contributing nothing would clinch this for me. That's quite some level of nerve.

an investment this size needs to be a joint decision, doesn't matter who's paying

I couldn’t disagree more. Like @floatsomeandjetsum, our money has remained separate throughout our 22 year marriage. Nobody tells me how to spend my money.

Look how inflexible he’s being - limited location, huge unaffordable wish list, no financial contribution. He wants a unicorn and is throwing his toys out of the pram because @floatsomeandjetsum is buying a racehorse.

Why not use some of the bought land and build a house you both like? It would work out cheaper to build them buy basically they whole tread is about your wants and needs not the kids or dps

There's nothing wrong with a woman protecting her financial interests (or a man, despite what some think) or maintaining separate finances, but what you're doing seems to go beyond that and into the realm of thinking he's inherently wrong for choosing this career as a farmer. As many have said, it is absolutely not an essential that the kids go to private school (and part board!) have ponies, or live in a huge detached house in a village. I don't know what farmers earnings are, but I don't believe it's true that he simply COULDN'T provide for the family on them - maybe not give them the heights of privilege you have, but a roof over their heads, food and necessities - well, clearly he can because he paid the rent for the past 10 years!

I also do think as a partner of 20 years that you claim to love, you morally should want to put something in place for him as the lower earner as well - whether that's adding his name to the mortgage or making provisions for him in your will that he gets the house should you die. Yes, it sounds like he could do more parenting, but it also sounds like you're a martyr. If your career pays so highly, why couldn't you work part time and hire a cleaner or a nanny? You knew he was passionate about farming when you met him, and if you didn't think this was suitable for providing for your kids, why have a family with him? You could've got an easy 9-5 admin job and lived a perfectly nice life, but your benchmark for what is necessary to provide is ridiculously high. A lot of these problems you've created for yourself.

@TedMullins

There's nothing wrong with a woman protecting her financial interests (or a man, despite what some think) or maintaining separate finances, but what you're doing seems to go beyond that and into the realm of thinking he's inherently wrong for choosing this career as a farmer. As many have said, it is absolutely not an essential that the kids go to private school (and part board!) have ponies, or live in a huge detached house in a village. I don't know what farmers earnings are, but I don't believe it's true that he simply COULDN'T provide for the family on them - maybe not give them the heights of privilege you have, but a roof over their heads, food and necessities - well, clearly he can because he paid the rent for the past 10 years!

I also do think as a partner of 20 years that you claim to love, you morally should want to put something in place for him as the lower earner as well - whether that's adding his name to the mortgage or making provisions for him in your will that he gets the house should you die. Yes, it sounds like he could do more parenting, but it also sounds like you're a martyr. If your career pays so highly, why couldn't you work part time and hire a cleaner or a nanny? You knew he was passionate about farming when you met him, and if you didn't think this was suitable for providing for your kids, why have a family with him? You could've got an easy 9-5 admin job and lived a perfectly nice life, but your benchmark for what is necessary to provide is ridiculously high. A lot of these problems you've created for yourself.

It's not really about the farm though, it's about him not accepting living in a 'normal' house, and me being able to relieve myself of pressure.

He wants more than I can give him.

@Bookworm20

I don't think YABU OP. From what I've read he wanted to go into farming because he loves it, and this has meant you had to earn more money to enable him to do this and live the life the do.

So heres a scenario which I think might sum it up, but in reverse.

When I met DP after getting my degree, I really wanted to bake cakes. DP, wanting me to be happy said go ahead. I love baking. I love my job, but it doesn't pay very much. I could've gotten a much higher paying job, but I wanted to do someting I love instead. DP decided he would get into a career where he could earn great money, but I know he hates it and its very stressful to the point he has suffered health wise over it.
But I didn't want to get a different job to help out more because I love baking cakes.
We have DC and DP takes on 100% of the childcare, with the exception of maybe a couple of school runs a week, as I work 7 days a week at my baking. He does all housework, sorts home admin and buys everything for the dc including private school and pays half the bills. The rest he is saving so we can buy a house. I pay most of the rent though and half the bills, but I don't mind because I really love my job and dp pays for everything else.
Because of my baking, we don't ever get to go on holiday as a family so DP takes the dc away so I can carry on baking, as it gets busy in the summer. He pays for their holidays but I think they have a nice time without me.
DP has had a pay increase over the years and recently sold a business so we're really fine financially. But he wants to buy a big house with the money he has made. We looked at it and it was ok, but there is no room for my cookers and I don't want to live in a big fancy house where I can't bake. Even though I can carry on baking where I currently bake.

I want DP to spend more money and buy a house with a big kitchen so I can be happy baking. he says he can't afford it and hes really tired and doesnt want a big morrtgage because wants to stop working so much as the years go by , so this would be security for our future.

I think hes being really selfish. I want to bake. It makes me happy. I think he should spend more money on a house that I want. AIBU to tell him to buy a house that I want with a kitchen and everything or I'll just leave.He enabled me to work in a job that I love, by doing one he doesn't, but why should I sacrifice my kitchen just because he doesn't want to take out a big mortgage? he's being selfish

Exactly.

@ArmWrestlingWithChasNDave

Of course I can get a mortgage, a massive one if I wanted it!

Then why did you say you "simply can't afford" a more expensive property?

How do you do eight school runs per week when your children board?

How do you have time for all these school runs for your boarder children when you're in such a stressful job?

A suitable property would upwards of £1m easily.

Why should I, approaching 50, stretch myself and saddle myself with this debt, to buy a property I don't want or need?

Genuine question? What's your reason?

Genuine question?

Yes, you've been asked a lot of those over the past couple of pages but are avoiding them. I wonder why. I don't really, I know why

@Bubblesandsqueak1

Why not use some of the bought land and build a house you both like? It would work out cheaper to build them buy basically they whole tread is about your wants and needs not the kids or dps

Because I have enough on my plate to log through this. I'm tired and I want a break, not more stress.

@ArmWrestlingWithChasNDave

Genuine question?

Yes, you've been asked a lot of those over the past couple of pages but are avoiding them. I wonder why. I don't really, I know why

Erm, I've got things to do other than be on Mumsnet! I was having a cup of tea and got sidetracked!

I couldn’t disagree more. Like**@floatsomeandjetsum*, our money has remained separate throughout our 22 year marriage. Nobody tells me how to spend my money.

Look how inflexible he’s being - limited location, huge unaffordable wish list, no financial contribution. He wants a unicorn and is throwing his toys out of the pram because*@floatsomeandjetsumis buying a racehorse.

Yes and no, looks like there's a lot more to this, emotionally, than that (and would caveat my last post with a big fat 🤨 at OP's earlier comment that she would've liked to have married DP but he never asked. That's some BS and I might have walked a long time ago if I were OP, for that reason alone).

I'm all for separate finances and wouldn't be held over a barrel by my DH either if I was putting down 100% of the cost, but a) this isn't as cut and dried as that because DP does work and earn - just a lot less than OP - and b) purely pragmatically, what's your quality of life going to be as a family with a faultline like this running down the middle of it? Can predict enjoyment of the house going sour quite quickly if one partner just resents it top to bottom. Maybe the solution is that they just split, if it would be like that, but doesn't sound like OP wants that.

Agree with others that the house needs parked and some serious talking done, if the overall goal is to stay together.