To think history will judge the U.K. over ukraine

[Letshaveablackcelebration]

I am so ashamed at how the U.K. is the only country in Europe effectively closing its doors to Ukrainian refugees. These are mostly women and children fleeing a country that has collapsed in the space of 2 weeks. A maternity hospital was bombed yesterday.

The rest of Europe is opening its arms and helping in every way it can but the U.K. had pretty much slammed the door, made it as difficult as possible to come. The U.K. signed the refugee convention in the 50’s that said that people fleeing war don’t need tons of paperwork and yet that’s exactly what they are asking people for.

I feel so embarrassed when everyone else is helping that we are doing nothing- we are an outlier in Europe.

I hate what this country has become under this disgusting government. I see so many posts on social media or brits wanting to do more.

@x2boys

“I mean there is a crazy man in Russia determined to carry on with this war and threatening everyother country ,but somehow it's the UK fault 🤔
Have you somehow managed to link it to Brexit yet Op
Mumsnet is ridiculous sometimes”

Can you actually read? The OP wasn’t blaming the UK for the start of the conflict!

It's all social media ,people who start these type of threads do so because they hate the government and know it can be like an echo chamber on here
Young people posting on tiktok are idealistic at best .

Yes it's my point that is all social media. People's views on MN aren't superior to people's views on tiktok.

I don't think disliking the gov is the reason people post these types of threads. It's a humanitarian crisis and people are concerned about the welfare of the refugees.

I also think calling young people idealistic is a great way to dismiss their views (again). As a teacher I've spoken to lots of young people about the situation, yes some are idealistic, but many understand the lack of NATO intervention - in short - just because they are young doesn't mean they don't understand the complexities of the situation.

Surely if people are fleeing war in Ukraine then there are other safe countries they will pass through before getting to the U.K.
Or are we saying that the rest of Europe isn’t safe.

My family came to the U.K. because it was the first country they got to that was safe so understand the perilous journey these people are making out of Ukraine but there are safe countries to cross the border into without making their way across mainland Europe.

@x2boys well you could argue that the UK’s shitty attitude towards foreigners ‘coming over here’ has a great deal to do with Brexit 🙄

And also, the U.K. is awash iwith Russian money and corruption, starting with the Tory party. Putin had a great deal to do with Brexit too. Read Carole Cadwalladr here

mobile.twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1498056686548013062

@DetailMouse

Thr British people have made it clear over and over again that they don't want refugees here, to the point that they're prepared to see them drown.

The people have got what they asked for, that's where the disgrace is.

I am also increasingly uncomfortable about why these refugees are so different

But why would “refugees” risk their life crossing the channel? Is France such a terrible, and unsafe place that the U.K. is the first safe country

Also, everyone saying that the governments failures are somehow made up on social media is laughable. The Tory party is a cesspit of immorality and self serving tossers who don’t care about anything but money and themselves and most should be nowhere near public office

Agree with couple of points above

1. Why UK when there are other safer, closer options?
2. Why a free for all when we know that most refugees 'prefer' UK even when they have other countries as options and hence the chances of non-Ukrainian refugees using this as an entry
3. UKBA need to up their game and make paperwork/appointments easy (but not necessarily remove the need for it completely)

I work with refugees, many of whom fled war. I worked with an Afghan refugee yesterday who is studying a masters here - he fled Kabul with his family with a rucksack on w military plane in august - he’s worked in high level government for 20 years and brings unique experience and skills. He wants to contribute to society. The tone of some of the comments here is really unpleasant.

We’ll, it’s what the Brexiteers voted for, innit? So we can control our borders and keep out the foreigners (although not the foreigners with dirty money, we’ll happily take them).

This Tory Government disgusts me - and anyone who votes for them is as morally bankrupt as they are.

But why would “refugees” risk their life crossing the channel?
Is France such a terrible, and unsafe place that the U.K. is the first safe country
@Kennykenkencat The Ukranians, at any rate, aren't going to risk their life crossing the channel. They are going to take a car ferry or one of the free Eurostar tickets. France is great. France is part of the EU and as such they can stay. Many, many of them will, and a few will want to go to the UK, for whatever reason. Nobody in France is saying "is Germany/Poland/Austria whatever, a terrible and unsafe place. Some Ukranians, for various reasons, want to go to the UK.

Don't conflate it with refugees crossing the channel on a dinghy. This is not that at all.

@araiwa

It's like the Russians want something for the millions they've donated to the Tory party...

Please remember this at election time people!

[quote Thingstodotoday]@x2boys

“I mean there is a crazy man in Russia determined to carry on with this war and threatening everyother country ,but somehow it's the UK fault 🤔
Have you somehow managed to link it to Brexit yet Op
Mumsnet is ridiculous sometimes”

Can you actually read? The OP wasn’t blaming the UK for the start of the conflict![/quote]
And the fact that people like this don't see the link to brexit is really no surprise. They don't seem to see much.

Everyone is judging now (very much including me) but no, History won't judge on this. Doing nothing rarely get you judged by history. Taking action is what gets judged, rightly or wrongly.

Plus, the eyes of the world are not really on the UK so this will get lost among all the other stuff that is going on.

@ElephantLover

Agree with couple of points above

1. Why UK when there are other safer, closer options?
2. Why a free for all when we know that most refugees 'prefer' UK even when they have other countries as options and hence the chances of non-Ukrainian refugees using this as an entry
3. UKBA need to up their game and make paperwork/appointments easy (but not necessarily remove the need for it completely)

1. Some people have family already in the UK. If the UK was at war and you had relatives living in Germany for example, wouldn’t you want to go and be with them for practical and emotional support? Why would you stay in France because it’s the first safe country you come to?
2. Most refugees do not prefer the UK. Ukrainians will go to wherever they already have a connection if one exists.
3. Agreed and the UKBA have been embarrassingly bad so far, probably stemming from a lack of prioritization at the highest levels. Here’s looking at you Priti Patel.

@ElephantLover

Agree with couple of points above

1. Why UK when there are other safer, closer options?
2. Why a free for all when we know that most refugees 'prefer' UK even when they have other countries as options and hence the chances of non-Ukrainian refugees using this as an entry
3. UKBA need to up their game and make paperwork/appointments easy (but not necessarily remove the need for it completely)

Who are you to judge?

I would switch on your empathy detector and try and imagine why people would come to the UK.

Maybe they’ve got connections here (which many do have!), maybe they speak the language? In fact many of the stories are along these lines.

This country is full of small minded individuals so quite frankly, I don’t know why people would come here.

But all I know is it must be horrific to have your home and town bombed to shit, and just having to run and then people snivel “why do you want to come here”.

It’s horrible.

Or they see too much time,calling people thick and racist for not voting the way you think they should says more about you
It's all very well not understanding why some people voted for Brexit when you live in a nice middle class area ,and immigration affects your life in a positive way
Not so much when the area is already deprived and over populated
But again this is just another Brexit , government bashing thread ,in the guise of being concerned about the awful situation Ukrainians are suffering from.

If you drill down to other European countries that aren’t bordering with Ukraine there are a few saying they will take 2000 refugees and only give them a year visa.

U.K. government has said a 3 year visa and 760 had been approved by yesterday with 17700 applications. Hopefully those will be processed rapidly now but it does seem that there’s too much paperwork.

We certainly aren’t moving fast enough yet, but there are other European countries who are only taking 2000 top by the looks of it. Switzerland Iceland, can’t find figures for Norway. Several other countries saying they are open but no figures for.

But yes we need to do a whole lot more

Yanbu, it’s shameful

@ElephantLover

Agree with couple of points above

1. Why UK when there are other safer, closer options?
2. Why a free for all when we know that most refugees 'prefer' UK even when they have other countries as options and hence the chances of non-Ukrainian refugees using this as an entry
3. UKBA need to up their game and make paperwork/appointments easy (but not necessarily remove the need for it completely)

1. The vast majority are not choosing the uk over closer countries - and that’s by a long shot!

Reasons someone might pick the UK over another country; family links usually or went here for university for example.

2.We “know” refugees prefer the uk??
Honestly views like this are pretty much the breeding ground for brexit. It’s a pompous attitude that really is trying to suggest that we are better than Eastern Europe and there is nothing they can offer that we can’t. Of course no one could want to go to another country over the glorious UK.
Get your head checked. The neighbouring countries are taking in the vast majority of refugees and will continue to do so but they cannot take in the sheet numbers of Ukrainians that will be fleeing.
The UK needs to take in a proportional number so the crisis is fairly dealt with by all European counties.

It says it all when the refugees reach Poland the first thing they see is ‘Welcome to Poland, you are safe’ and the first thing they see at a UK embassy is a long sign detailing how long it takes to process applications, don’t come in without an appointment, don’t expect to actually get a visa etc etc

I judge the UK every day. Iraq and other oil invasions, No basic infrastructure, years of encouraging economic migrants, a health system worse than useless that kills people, a shitty educational system and so on. Bloody shitty pit of hell anyway.

@sashagabadon

I don’t think so at all. In fact I currently think the opposite. The U.K. has provided more practical help to Ukraine that many other European countries eg. Germany. They sent 5000 helmets apparently and then loads of stuff covered in mould in dusty old boxes. I think they are helping more now. Back in January when U.K. was making countless flights to Ukraine Germany would not allow them to fly over their airspace. They had to fly round. U.K. has been training troops in Ukraine for 6 years. I agree re. Refugees and on that we are slow but we are a further away country with fewer population ties and I bet we catch up rapidly in the next few days/ weeks. EU have the Schengen zone so people can move freely once inside that. We are not part of that and never have been.

Finally some sense and actual facts. Let's not let that get in the way of the opportunity to self flagellate and emote about being "ashamed to be British!" though.

I think as a small island we have limited resources, we can't keep taking people in, it's barbaric what's happening but the U.K can't save the world.

And as ever I do wonder, if we are such a racist, mean spirited, backward nation, just why so MANY immigrants want to come here in preference to so many other countries they could get to more easily?