To think Zelenskyy needs to stop demanding a no fly zone

[WilsonMilson]

The war is awful, it’s heartbreaking to see what is happening in Ukraine. Zelenskyy has been exceptionally brave, but his current rhetoric that ‘until a no fly zone is put in place that every death is on NATO’ is reckless.

A no fly zone means WW3. No one wins then, the whole world burns. He needs to stop blaming us for not getting into what would undoubtedly be a nuclear war with Russia. It is a terrible situation, but implementing a no fly zone would be crazy.

@FloraFoxx

'But I think the Ukrainian government should of worked with Russia and agreed to what they wanted ,this is not a war they were ever going to win'

Compromise is needed on both sides but it seems a stalemate and I don't think either will give an inch.

Russia isn't seeking a compromise. It wants Ukraine to recognised seized parts of Ukraine as Russian. Ukraine to agree never to join NATO and to replace Ukraines PM with someone Kremlin friendly.

These are the demands 2 weeks into the conflict. What precisely do you expect Ukraine to compromise on?

when the UK left the EU, the EU did not want us to but we were free to leave free to sign new trade deals with other nations, some people in UK didn't want to leave EU there was a vote, a Government went ahead, in fact the whole time we were in EU we were also in a deal with commonwealth
this is not about the rights or wrongs of Brexit but at no point did the EU think that because we wanted to leave or indeed did leave that rolling tanks in or sending their Navies up the Thames was an appropiate response, so even if Ukraine was once part of USSR and had been pro Russia for a while they are allowed to change and make other deals join different, so if Ukraine now wants to join EU or NATO that is a decision for Ukraine and the EU and NATO it is not a decision for Russia New Zealand or Turkey,
Ukraine is an independent country it can decide which trade deals to make which alliances to make, the fact your neighbour doesn't like your choices is not really an excuse for neighbours to invade.
There maybe Russians in Eastern Ukraine that think they are unfairly treated maybe there are Ukranians in Russia that feel the same there is a shared history and it is complicated and problematic a bit like British and Irish history, there has been violence between Britain and Ireland but at no point did either side think flattening every house school and hospital in the other nation was the way to go
those you don't understand history are doomed to repeat it

@TheMILinatorReturns

Face the facts...world war 3 has already begun.

100%..

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

I don't understand why countries aren't allowed to close their own airspace? Why is it up to Nato or other countries to say so?

It is not the physical act of closing down the airspace, he is essentially asking for NATO jets support to ensure no encrouchments on the airspace.

If granted, then in theory NATO jets would have to shoot down any Russian aircraft venturing into the airspace. In essence making it a literal world war.

Had a whole afternoon of USAF F-15e's doing manourvers above my house today, which is rare given the visibility today here.

Very tough, complicated and truly awful situation

@Sarahcoggles

This thread has shocked me. I had no idea people had such an appetite for a nuclear war. And someone saying “better to be vapourised than life like a coward” defies belief.

If we’re all so ready to die, why have we been wearing masks and practising social distancing for the last 2 years?

Exactly this. It's awful what is happening but if a no fly zone is implemented then it will affect every one of us; our families, parents, friends. *
I'd rather look like a coward then be vaporised.*

Ukraine asked to join NATO, despite assurances being given to Russia, when the USSR broke up, that it wouldn't.
Zelensky knew this would cause war-lives lost, cities flattened and yet he did it anyway.

The war started 5 years before Zelensky was elected, how is it his fault @TristramBrandy?

@kittensinthekitchen

Loving all the new users coming in with "peace and love guys, give russia what they want, then we can all make daisy chains and see what's for tea".

If that's to me, I'm not a new user. I change my name every 4-6 weeks.

@Sarahcoggles

This thread has shocked me. I had no idea people had such an appetite for a nuclear war. And someone saying “better to be vapourised than life like a coward” defies belief. If we’re all so ready to die, why have we been wearing masks and practising social distancing for the last 2 years?

That would be me you are referring to. It was said in response to a poster victim blaming Ukraine. Nobody but the clinically insane wants a nuclear war.

@TristramBrandy

Ukraine asked to join NATO, despite assurances being given to Russia, when the USSR broke up, that it wouldn't.

Zelensky knew this would cause war-lives lost, cities flattened and yet he did it anyway.

He may have felt justified-maybe he was- but he knew what the price would be and, on behalf of his people, he went ahead.

He is not some plaster saint whose shit doesn't stink. He may not be the Devil Incarnate either. The point is he knew what would happen and he went ahead. He thought the price was worth paying. People in Ukraine are paying.

Now we know what will happen if NATO shoots down a Russian plane-so does Zelensky. He wants us to also feel that the price is worth paying, to join him. That's fine as long as we all know the price we will pay and decide it is worth it.

I don't think that the price is worth being unable to afford to heat my home, suffer food shortages, maybe my home being turned to rubble and-worse of all-the life of my children.

But then, I am one person and must go along with the majority but I hope and pray that the majority have looked at possible disastrous consequences with a clear eye before embarking on this path.

Once that first Russian plane is shot down by Nato then the balloon will go up and life changes forever.

That’s a really ill informed comment Ukraine applied initially in 2008

I would argue that WW3 started some time ago and shouldn't be equated exclusively with nuclear war.

A no-fly zone would bring Nato forces into direct conflict with Russian forces that is the problem. I think we should probably leave it to the military strategists to work out the best way forward.

I think if we don’t take any steps to defend Ukara, Putin won’t stop there.

SpeckledlyHen

If you find it cringeworthy I’m afraid that is your problem, not mine.

Everyone knows a no fly zone equals risk of nuclear warfare. It’s not rocket science is it??? Do you think it’s okay for one country to ask everyone else to risk WW2?
I can be sympathetic towards Ukraine and their leader but still have this opinion.

[quote supersundaythenmonday]@Sarahcoggles

This thread has shocked me. I had no idea people had such an appetite for a nuclear war. And someone saying “better to be vapourised than life like a coward” defies belief.

If we’re all so ready to die, why have we been wearing masks and practising social distancing for the last 2 years?

Exactly this. It's awful what is happening but if a no fly zone is implemented then it will affect every one of us; our families, parents, friends. *
I'd rather look like a coward then be vaporised.* [/quote]
Yep, after all who gives a shit about anyone else.

Ukraine. No idea what Ukara is

"Stop making me hit you"

'Russia isn't seeking a compromise. It wants Ukraine to recognised seized parts of Ukraine as Russian. Ukraine to agree never to join NATO and to replace Ukraines PM with someone Kremlin friendly.'

I'm not a politician, I don't know the answers but I cannot see how Zelenskyy 'addressing Parliament' and no doubt asking for a NFZ is going to help.

They need to maybe think about agreeing to certain parts of Ukraine, specifically the Russian speaking parts, as being recognised as Russian? Not great obviously but neither is millions of displaced people and a country in ruins.

A no fly zone isn’t going to happen but I’m not sure we haven’t lined up troops along the countries on the western borders since this in itself is a deterrent.

We do need to get on with giving them the polish planes to defend their skies.

I have also wondered why zelensky doesn’t gift the areas where the Russians haven’t yet entered to Poland (obviously on the understanding that they’re given back). We could then get far closer and protect millions of people.

I'd rather look like a coward then be vaporised

Would you rather live under Putin's rule than risk it? Because he's not stopping. And eventually we will need to choose. It's better to draw a line before he has swathes of new territory.

I'm not in favour of a no fly zone BTW. But I'm not blaming Ukraine for asking to join NATO. Or suggesting everyone just rolls over. Pacifying narcissist people doesn't work.

This thread has shocked me. I had no idea there were so many selfish cowardly pathetic people.

What exactly do you think a no fly zone is and how would it help Ukraine?

There are better ways to help the people of Ukraine that don’t involve a completely unenforceable conflict magnet.

They are dying to protect us. I cannot blame him for asking.

I heard an army person on the radio saying that a NATO exercise involving 150,000 troops was due to take place from last Sunday off the coast of Norway. Has this happened? Does anyone know? I found it both reassuring and alarming.

@saoirse31

supersundaythenmonday
@Sarahcoggles

This thread has shocked me. I had no idea people had such an appetite for a nuclear war. And someone saying “better to be vapourised than life like a coward” defies belief.

If we’re all so ready to die, why have we been wearing masks and practising social distancing for the last 2 years?

Exactly this. It's awful what is happening but if a no fly zone is implemented then it will affect every one of us; our families, parents, friends. *
I'd rather look like a coward then be vaporised.* 
Yep, after all who gives a shit about anyone else.

A no fly zone equals nuclear war..what part of that do you not understand. Do YOU no give a shit about anyone?
Do you think it's ok for Ukraine to risk WW3?

@Clarabe1

This thread has shocked me. I had no idea there were so many selfish cowardly pathetic people. Probably the same people that are on the threads crying because the situation is giving them anxiety.

Another one who has no idea what a no fly zone would mean. You are the selfish one, risking WW3

Absolutely can’t blame him and he is completely right to ask for it.

NATO are also completely right to say no.