To think Zelenskyy needs to stop demanding a no fly zone

[WilsonMilson]

The war is awful, it’s heartbreaking to see what is happening in Ukraine. Zelenskyy has been exceptionally brave, but his current rhetoric that ‘until a no fly zone is put in place that every death is on NATO’ is reckless.

A no fly zone means WW3. No one wins then, the whole world burns. He needs to stop blaming us for not getting into what would undoubtedly be a nuclear war with Russia. It is a terrible situation, but implementing a no fly zone would be crazy.

@wotnogas

YANBU

Those saying if Ukraine doesn't fight to the death, Russia won't be stopped. Russia is asking for Donetsk and Luhansk to be independent states and for Crimea. If I were Zelensky I would be asking for UN to go in (as it has in other places, nearest being re Kosovo, Israel, Cyprus...) while there are negotiations, stopping the death and destruction and the neo nazis from increasing. It was agreed already that once fighting was stopped, D and L would be autonomous so it isn't giving much ground. No way I'd be putting people through hell for that land.

I also think that the west should stop supplying arms and allowing citizens to go and "help" as they are just fanning flames and enabling a war of attrition. I think it is sick to be honest - all those weapons are never going to more than just enough to keep the war going, anything else is ww3. And it is now a breeding ground for lawless neo nazis - attracting their buddies from the west too.

And sanctions, we will soon feel it, normal people who already are at breadline, Russian normal people already feel it, the more it goes on the more Russia retaliates - it isn't working - it is going to drive the world into economic crisis and war.

Who on earth wants that? Where else do they think it is going to end?

Enough is enough - Zelensky should be agreeing to negotiate the issues on the table, all weapons withdrawn from both sides and from all neo nazis, UN goes in while there are talks and while Ukraine is being rebuilt, war crimes examined, neo nazis totally disarmed, civil war in East of Ukraine which has gone on for years totally stopped.

Yep. Another pro Putin response. After all, should someone attack UK I guess you would have same response, ' ah yeah, let them take wherever etc..'.... Actually, you probably would... Because appeasement is essentially admitting defeat and suggesting to aggressor, come on, take some more.

@supersundaythenmonday Ukraine are not risking WW3! Russia are! They invaded Ukraine. Your argument is as ridiculous as blaming Poland for WW2. Zelensky is only asking and so would you if you were facing annihilation. It’s seems to me that you are busy thinking about yourself and what you could lose - why don’t you grant him the same courtesy? Seeing he is the one that is watching his country being ripped to shreds.

@Clarabe1

This thread has shocked me. I had no idea there were so many selfish cowardly pathetic people. Probably the same people that are on the threads crying because the situation is giving them anxiety.

What's pathetic and cowardly about it? Keen to hear your solution.

[quote supersundaythenmonday]@saoirse31

supersundaythenmonday
@Sarahcoggles

This thread has shocked me. I had no idea people had such an appetite for a nuclear war. And someone saying “better to be vapourised than life like a coward” defies belief.

If we’re all so ready to die, why have we been wearing masks and practising social distancing for the last 2 years?

Exactly this. It's awful what is happening but if a no fly zone is implemented then it will affect every one of us; our families, parents, friends. *
I'd rather look like a coward then be vaporised.* 
Yep, after all who gives a shit about anyone else.

A no fly zone equals nuclear war..what part of that do you not understand. Do YOU no give a shit about anyone?
Do you think it's ok for Ukraine to risk WW3?[/quote]
Ukraine r not threatening WW3. You are surmising Russia will if Europe and or NATO defend Ukraine.

@Clarabe1

This thread has shocked me. I had no idea there were so many selfish cowardly pathetic people. Probably the same people that are on the threads crying because the situation is giving them anxiety.

What a cowardly thing to say

Is this even about Nato?

Tbf, I think it's clear that UK are not totally supporting Ukraine anyway, ban russian gas by end of the year?? give oligarchs a month to move their money?? Maybe you should just admit that Johnson's govt is not taking any kind of serious action against Russia. I think that will satisfy an awful lot of posters, who will then sleep easier tonight.

This thread is fucking insane! Maybe people who know absolutely nothing about the situation shouldn't be commenting such hyperbole and selfishness. Ukraine is at war and the man with balls of steel is risking his own life to defend his people, his country, his culture, his values and his morals. Ukraine has never been part of Russia. Just because Russia planted it's stooges and then declared independence in certain areas does not make it Russian. How dare anyone suggest Zelenskyy should hand over any part of his country to Russia. And if you didn't know if Russia gets hold of Ukraine it doesn't end there if that's what you think. He will go after Moldova next. Then Slovakia. Then Slovenia, Latvia, Lithuania and keep going.

@newhomenewlife47 why is it cowardly when it is said in response to posters who are suggesting we do what Putin wants because ‘ they have families’ Balls to the families in Ukraine eh?

'Zelensky is only asking and so would you if you were facing annihilation.'

He knows it will trigger NATO wide escalation. A NFZ will not stop the ground shelling anyway, which from all reports is what is actually causing the devastation.

@saoirse31

Tbf, I think it's clear that UK are not totally supporting Ukraine anyway, ban russian gas by end of the year?? give oligarchs a month to move their money?? Maybe you should just admit that Johnson's govt is not taking any kind of serious action against Russia. I think that will satisfy an awful lot of posters, who will then sleep easier tonight.

Yeah true, let's just create a shortage of gas which pushes up prices even further. By the end of the year is a lot more ambitious than many countries, and to be fair China will just buy their gas I expect anyway I expect so I'm sure the tiny percentage we buy won't make much difference. Also why not read up on the military support we have been giving ukraine for years? Those servicemen and women who have spent up to 9 months away from their families to help train their military and show them how to use the weapons and tech we have given them.

Ukraine r not threatening WW3. You are surmising Russia will if Europe and or NATO defend Ukraine

WWs one and two started with just two countries, more countries joined in, still more joined in, taking sides. That is the concern here, that the same will happen. At that stage who started it, who was at fault, become academic. Can you not see that?

The longer this goes on, the more unstable things get around the globe as a result of sanctions, the more likely it is more trouble will break out, and ultimately get out of control.

Russia started this conflict but as I say whoever is at fault becomes academic if the world is plunged into economic crisis and then war.

Where do the people who want the fighting to continue think this will end? At best a long war of attrition with Ukraine completely gone and the world in economic crisis. Think about it, seriously. Is your fight here worth it?

And who do you think some or most of the men are who are volunteering to go and fight in Ukraine now? Do you not think it has become a breeding ground for neo nazis?

@ShaneTwane

This thread is fucking insane! Maybe people who know absolutely nothing about the situation shouldn't be commenting such hyperbole and selfishness. Ukraine is at war and the man with balls of steel is risking his own life to defend his people, his country, his culture, his values and his morals. Ukraine has never been part of Russia. Just because Russia planted it's stooges and then declared independence in certain areas does not make it Russian. How dare anyone suggest Zelenskyy should hand over any part of his country to Russia. And if you didn't know if Russia gets hold of Ukraine it doesn't end there if that's what you think. He will go after Moldova next. Then Slovakia. Then Slovenia, Latvia, Lithuania and keep going.

Well said! They won’t wake up until Putin is knocking on their door.

Ridiculous comment about Peace and Love from a PP, surely it is better than hate and war!!

@longwayoff
The NATO rehearsal Cold Response is well underway in Norway. I guess it shows Russia what NATO military can do.
Several soldiers will travel and fight in Ukraine afterwards as independent volunteers.

@TristramBrandy You have not paid attention in history class, have you? Not the ww’s or more recent history either. And to lump all of those things together in a completely incorrect mishmash and then blame the current Ukraine president is - interesting.

@Lubeyboobyalt

YABU due to Putin being a cowardly bully who would absolutely not use his nukes. There is a long time understanding that using them means Armageddon. He won't want to rule over rubble and the starving. If no one stands up to him that sends the message that his pissy little threats work and Georgia and Moldova are next, and then god knows who.

I agree. He is using the fear of nuclear war to cow us into permitting him to do as he pleases. We can live safe for now if we appease Putin, but must start wondering which country is next if we do. And the next after that and so on. Because nothing will have changed. Putin has found a method which achieves what he wants. Why should he cease using it? So how do we make him cease? For a start, we can stop shaking in our shoes and bleating that we won't risk a nuclear war. That is such a comfort to Putin.

@Lubeyboobyalt

YABU due to Putin being a cowardly bully who would absolutely not use his nukes. There is a long time understanding that using them means Armageddon. He won't want to rule over rubble and the starving. If no one stands up to him that sends the message that his pissy little threats work and Georgia and Moldova are next, and then god knows who.

I wish you were right, but all the evidence suggests that Putin is quite happy to rule over rubble and the starving. He alrady does to some extent. I, and most political commentators, believe that absolutely he would use nukes to stay in power.

Ukraine is asking the world to risk WW3 by betting that your armchair psychology (about a man you never met) is correct. That is a hell of a gamble and quite a big ask.

Yanbu OP. What we really need to do is stop pumping $500million oil and gas money a day into Russia for Putin to spend on weapons, and maybe look closer at what other facist dictatorship regimes we pump money into. It does not end well.

Very easy for you to say from your couch in a safe country.

Of course he should keep demanding it.

YABU - we shouldn’t impose a no fly zone because it would risk ww3. However, it is Zelensky’s job to protect the people of Ukraine, a country he presumably loves where his closest friends and family live. You can’t blame him for pleading with the west to save them.

Thank you turbonerd. Perhaps they'll give him pause for thought. Putin's actual army doesn't seem to be up for a fight other than blasting missiles etc from armoured vehicles. This is indeed 1938, upthread. We can't let it go. Dear Lord help us all.

He’s doing right by his own people to ask for it and why shouldn’t he? His country is already being attacked so he has nothing to lose.

If he genuinely believes that other leaders would be doing the right thing by their own countries by imposing a no fly zone, then he’s as crazy as Putin.

@GregBrawlsInDogJail

YABU. Zelenskyy's first duty is, as it should be, to his own country, its defence and its people. He knows the obstacles very well, but that doesn't mean he should stop asking. He is doing what he needs to do, and so is NATO.

I agree. You need to think more about why he is asking for this @WilsonMilson. Consider the consequences of him NOT asking.

It is reckless and irresponsible to draw playground bully parallels, it is like asking a wizard to make all this dissappear with a spell and a wand i.e having a conviction on a course of action that is based on feelings. Context is everything here and the moves NATO make have to be made with that in mind.

@WilsonMilson

The war is awful, it’s heartbreaking to see what is happening in Ukraine. Zelenskyy has been exceptionally brave, but his current rhetoric that ‘until a no fly zone is put in place that every death is on NATO’ is reckless.

A no fly zone means WW3. No one wins then, the whole world burns. He needs to stop blaming us for not getting into what would undoubtedly be a nuclear war with Russia. It is a terrible situation, but implementing a no fly zone would be crazy.

Yes it would be if they thought Putin would use nuclear weapons

But YABVU to say is he being reckless to carry on asking. Of course he is going to continue and yes he will blame NATO for continuing deaths even if they can’t implement the no fly zone he wants

WWs one and two started with just two countries, more countries joined in, still more joined in, taking sides. That is the concern here, that the same will happen. At that stage who started it, who was at fault, become academic. Can you not see that?

So, a country is invaded, and there should be no retaliation because ... we're scared, so appease? Can you not see that?