To think Zelenskyy needs to stop demanding a no fly zone

[WilsonMilson]

The war is awful, it’s heartbreaking to see what is happening in Ukraine. Zelenskyy has been exceptionally brave, but his current rhetoric that ‘until a no fly zone is put in place that every death is on NATO’ is reckless.

A no fly zone means WW3. No one wins then, the whole world burns. He needs to stop blaming us for not getting into what would undoubtedly be a nuclear war with Russia. It is a terrible situation, but implementing a no fly zone would be crazy.

@Clarabe1

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

What are you doing that's so brave and selfless?

And who do you think some or most of the men are who are volunteering to go and fight in Ukraine now? Do you not think it has become a breeding ground for neo nazis?

I think there's as many neo Nazis if not more on the other side tbh ... Whatever they call themselves.

NATO don't need to implement a no fly zone anyway it looks like. Russia is going to lose. Zelensky is awesome. And he can ask, has to ask, but Putin has done himself and his country some serious damage in this hideously miscalculated invasion anyway so it's kind of a non point.

I don’t want to read and leave.
I don’t have any wise words or answers.
Bless Ukraine and it’s people and leader.
What is happening there is unimaginable, it is not a film or a book, it is their dreadful reality and their plight should be treated with respect not criticism.

The US have just dealt Russia another death blow by cutting off their oil. There isn’t going to be a no fly zone. It looks like we are going to cripple Russia through sanctions. I hope so.

Plus Ukraine are doing pretty well preventing Russia get air dominance so fingers crossed.

That anyone suggests Zelenskyy should put up and shut up to keep them safe from personal inconvenience is absolutely astonishing. I trust they will be petitioning their government to have it on record it is preferred that when being flattened and killed we keep it to ourselves, suck it up, and don’t ask for help that might inconvenience someone somewhere in the world. In fact best petition now if in the U.K. as I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t be able to find our leaders in event of invasion.
I am not talking about those who don’t think we should implement a no fly zone - unfortunately it does appear that can’t be done - but those suggesting he brought it on himself and his country by not rolling over and dying when it suited Putin. Of course he should ask though - what’s he say to his people ‘we need to keep it down, low key, not ask for anything - it’s upsetting a few mumsnet users’.
It’s pretty short sighted to advocate this anyway as ‘winning’ Ukraine easily would let Putin forge into other countries- when do we suggest he stops? Or do we not? I don’t want a nuclear war, a Third World War or my family being conscripted - I also don’t want to live under a Russian regime nor expect any country to have to unless by active choice.

@Fifiesta

I don’t want to read and leave. I don’t have any wise words or answers. Bless Ukraine and it’s people and leader. What is happening there is unimaginable, it is not a film or a book, it is their dreadful reality and their plight should be treated with respect not criticism.

Wise words

Yes, China will buy it anyway and The Times has just reported that it will lead to a "catastrophic" rise in the price of UK oil.

Still, we mustn't be anxious about that must we, @Clarabe1.

After all as you said upthread that you would rather be "VAPORISED THAN BE A COWARD", the fact that millions will be poverty stricken in the UK means less than nothing to you.

The fact that your post then sneering about people who were anxious had to be deleted says it all.

Reading this post was like a slap in the face. Just listened to Zelensky address the U.K. Parliament, detailing what his country is suffering, all day I’ve read stories of families being shelled to death in their cars as they flee, children dying of dehydration and bodies rotting because the constant shelling means its not safe to collect them, murdered family members, seen parents running, holding their children by the hand dodging bullets. A population either fleeing with nothing but the stuff they can fit in one bag, or hiding underground, with no food or water.
Zelensky is calling for a no fly zone. Of course he is. From the perspective of every Ukrainian this IS WW3. It may of course be necessary to refuse at this point, to prevent inevitable escalation that would cause, but WW2 has taught us that you expect mad dictators to stop expansionist ambition at your peril.

@TristramBrandy

Yes, China will buy it anyway and The Times has just reported that it will lead to a "catastrophic" rise in the price of UK oil.

Still, we mustn't be anxious about that must we, @Clarabe1.

After all as you said upthread that you would rather be "VAPORISED THAN BE A COWARD", the fact that millions will be poverty stricken in the UK means less than nothing to you.

The fact that your post then sneering about people who were anxious had to be deleted says it all.

Exactly and @Clarabe1 had the cheek to call other posters "selfish". I'm glad her post got deleted.

Dear God @TristramBrandy it sounds like you are actually cheering Russia on?

I'm not a fan of the man. He loses mana every time he goes crying to America, IMO.

Maybe anyone of us would be saying this if we were trying to manage a country which was experiencing such destruction. As for until a no fly zone is put in place that every death is on NATO I think we are somewhat complicit, we are standing by and doing nothing to prevent it. Yes, it may cause WW3, but I think that will happen anyway - it's what Putin is engineering.

Pretty much this:
"Zelenskyy is a world leader whose country and people are being obliterated by an appalling, corrupt and quasi-fascist regime. If the Russians reach Kyiv he will almost certainly be murdered. His job is to ask for whatever might save Ukraine, in as vocal and persistent manner as possible, even if he knows it's unlikely to happen.

You, in contrast, are a random person sitting at a computer on a website where people argue about whether you should wear pyjamas in the day time and which type of soap is more hygienic and why their best friend has fallen out with them.

I don't think you're really in a position to be pontificating on what Zelenskyy should or shouldn't be asking for, are you? Perhaps come back when you've been the leader of a country on the brink of a genocide."

Yep someone who is free critiquing someone from a country currently being slaughtered on mass by a dictator. You should try criticizing the problem more IE ... PUTRID PUTIN .... dumb so YUBVVVU

@TristramBrandy @newhomenewlife47 you both want the US to carry on buying Russian oil then? I am glad it’s given you a frisson of joy to see my post deleted. For the record I couldn’t give a shite.

@incognitoforthisone

Zelenskyy is a world leader whose country and people are being obliterated by an appalling, corrupt and quasi-fascist regime. If the Russians reach Kyiv he will almost certainly be murdered. His job is to ask for whatever might save Ukraine, in as vocal and persistent manner as possible, even if he knows it's unlikely to happen.

You, in contrast, are a random person sitting at a computer on a website where people argue about whether you should wear pyjamas in the day time and which type of soap is more hygienic and why their best friend has fallen out with them.

I don't think you're really in a position to be pontificating on what Zelenskyy should or shouldn't be asking for, are you? Perhaps come back when you've been the leader of a country on the brink of a genocide.

Bravo! Well said.

@TristramBrandy

Don't be a twat *@Clarabe1*.

You want to be a Billy Big Bollix...great. You want to sneer at those who are anxious...great. You want to imply anyone who doesn't want their life ruined by war must be Mrs Putin...great.

Grow up.

You want to stick your head up Putins arse and make decisions about Ukraine to save your own skin (when it’s a sovereign state not a bargaining chip) then on you go.

• Who would "police" this no fly zone?
• It won't stop any missile strikes.
• Not even the Ukrainians would be allowed to use their own airspace.
• NATO won't get involved at this point in time as it's clear that we would face a European or world war.

That's it in a nutshell. For now anyway.

@newhomenewlife47 @TristramBrandy for the record I not sneering at people with anxiety. I am sneering at the people who come onto a thread blithely giving away parts of another country and wanting to appease a madman- then chatting on about their own anxiety as if nobody else has got a family or anything to lose.

[quote Clarabe1]**@newhomenewlife47* @TristramBrandy* for the record I not sneering at people with anxiety. I am sneering at the people who come onto a thread blithely giving away parts of another country and wanting to appease a madman- then chatting on about their own anxiety as if nobody else has got a family or anything to lose.[/quote]

You were sneering at people with anxiety and that was why your post got deleted

YANBU OP. All it takes is a couple of countries to cave into his demands, and that will put pressure on all of us to follow. . I guess he thinks if he keeps asking, that he will find a weakness somewhere in our armour. Awful situation for him and his country, but we absolutely can’t risk Putin using nuclear weapons. The only positive is that he can’t make the decision himself to nuke us - it has to be agreed by others in the Kremlin too, it’s not just his decision to make. And I would hope that there would be enough people around him to vote no to pressing the button.