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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think society has lost the ability to allow opposing views anymore

181 replies

allmixedup12 · 07/03/2022 23:57

there is no space left in the UK/US for opposing views anymore and any kind of debate feels totally polarizing. It seems the public has been dumbed down to understand black and white are the only two colours - i feel uncomfortable raising doubts anymore in public for the fear of being attacked

Brexit vs EU love
Trump vs Democrats
Covid vs Deniers/doubters
BLM vs I'm not racist, and no one else is either
Russia/China bad - UK/US good
NATO is innocent - Putin is Satan (neither is true)
woke vs not woke?
BBC vs RT
Indyref vs Union
Islamophobes vs Liberals

Insane how difficult it has become to voice opposing opinions without being attacked personally as a fascist/racist/insensitive/crazy

OP posts:
cuno · 08/03/2022 00:03

I don't subscribe to black and white thinking or one view out of two polar opposite views, and yet I can't think of a time I have ever been called a racist or a fascist. What views are you wanting to voice that you fear will have you called those things?

Hawkins001 · 08/03/2022 00:05

University, as I understand it was an institution for learning and debates of various topics,.Then some how no platforming became popular, which to me raises the question of why go to university to learn, yet when given the chance to debate different topics and knowledge and understanding, instead in some cases with the no platforming it's this is the only relevant information etc.

cuno · 08/03/2022 00:11

@Hawkins001

I agree about universities. They are pretty awful for this, particularly when it comes to the slightest thing that doesn't wrap trans people in cotton wool. But I find that this way of thinking isn't reflected by my family, friends and acquaintances. So I wonder how prevalent it actually is in society if that makes sense.

Hawkins001 · 08/03/2022 00:12

University, I always considered the one place where you hear and read a wide range of opinions, and perspectives, but yet along came the no platforming and it's like say what ?

Original poster
allmixedup12 · 08/03/2022 00:14

@cuno I've followed an investigative journalist named John Pilger for several years now and watched many of his documentaries, which opened my eyes on the realities of Iraq & Afghanistan wars, US-China diplomacy, NHS privatization etc. johnpilger.com/ Most times the reality was completely different from what was the popular opinion - which was also unfortunately my opinion before seeing reality

His tweets on the recent Ukraine crises and since then my reading up on the topic from credible sources has made me very very skeptical of mainstream media coverage of the war and i am starting to understand that the reality may be something completely different from what is fed on TV. As much as it breaks my heart for the individual families stuck in the middle of this crises, the causes of this seem far more complex than "Putin is a madman"

this is making me uncomfortable and I am afraid to speak up for fear of losing friends/job/being cancelled in some other form etc. etc. even my own family is looking at me with wtf eyes

OP posts:
BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation · 08/03/2022 00:20

I take it you're a putin apologist?

Original poster
allmixedup12 · 08/03/2022 00:24

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation No i am not for war nor do i know putin/russia well enough to have a real opinion, yet. I do think when incredibly ethical and high quality independent journalists write something, it is worth reading and thinking about than following like sheep

OP posts:
Marchitectmummy · 08/03/2022 00:25

I think there is a fair amount of shouting down and news outlets are very conformist to that but opposing views exist. Mumsnet is full of them!

cuno · 08/03/2022 00:38

I've read into the war and the background behind it and I fail to see any possible justification for Russia invading Ukraine. If you also think it's clearly not justified, then I don't get what it is that you want to speak out against.

Or do you want to stick the boot in to try and make a point that the Ukrainians deserve it somehow, or that Putin is redeemable? What on earth do you feel so strongly about wrt this war that you are worried about losing your job over it? Maybe you need to step away from the Internet for a bit.

ReeseWitherfork · 08/03/2022 00:38

it is worth reading and thinking about than following like sheep
Curious stance to take. I don't think most people read one article and then "follow it like sheep". Unfortunately, the way the internet works, you are more likely to see things you agree with. The more you see, the more you'll be convinced. I don't think most Brexit voters made up their mind on the first day.

allmixedup12 · 08/03/2022 00:47

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Thenose · 08/03/2022 00:49

" I find that this way of thinking isn't reflected by my family, friends and acquaintances".

Same here. If you change 'society' to 'some people online', your assertion might have some merit.

TheScenicWay · 08/03/2022 00:54

I agree with you op. There are so many grey areas but we’re not able to have discussions without people trying to put you in one camp or another. There should be open discussion but there isn’t. It’s all shut down immediately by accusations of such things as being a Putin Apologist, as illustrated above.
If I don’t now state that I am certainly not in favour of Putin, people will accuse me of the same, even though I joined this thread not to discuss Putin but the divisions in society, the us and them mentality and the black and white thinking.

cuno · 08/03/2022 01:00

So what is it then OP that you're just dying to say at work? I feel like you avoided my previous question, but I just can't quite imagine what you would be wanting to say about Ukraine that would have you called a racist and fascist and sacked from your job. Surely it can't be work appropriate then? I somehow manage to go through life without worrying about being called those things or facing such ramifications and I'm certainly no sheep and often have nuanced discussions with friends who hold varying opinions.

JenniferBarkley · 08/03/2022 01:07

I agree that the centre ground has been lost in politics and that is a real shame.

However I think it's good and important that, for example, racist and sexist views are less accepted and that people saying offensive and discriminatory stuff in the workplace might face a consequence for that.

I think we've become more accepting and tolerant of those who are less privileged and less tolerant of discriminatory views. I'm more than ok with that.

Usually when people say "I feel like I can't even say what I think any more without fear of ", that's not a good sign. On MN they're usually opposed to trans rights, in the wider internet/world it'll generally be something racist/sexist/homophobic. Political correctness gorn mad innit. I'm ok with not hearing those views.

When a country invades it's smaller, less powerful neighbour, it's never a case of "two sides to every story".

Original poster
allmixedup12 · 08/03/2022 01:07

if given an open forum - I would ask what did NATO expansion have to do with this happening. that is unanswered q1 in my book, to which i dont have an answer to yet. whatever i find from past writings of ambassadors, diplomats etc. isnt what is on the telly.

i hold a senior role and i cannot say this at work openly

PS - never called you a sheep, nor anyone else. only responded to someone calling me a putin apologist.

OP posts:
cuno · 08/03/2022 01:09

I'm confused why you would need to be discussing this at work though, OP.

cuno · 08/03/2022 01:11

@JenniferBarkley

I agree that the centre ground has been lost in politics and that is a real shame.

However I think it's good and important that, for example, racist and sexist views are less accepted and that people saying offensive and discriminatory stuff in the workplace might face a consequence for that.

I think we've become more accepting and tolerant of those who are less privileged and less tolerant of discriminatory views. I'm more than ok with that.

Usually when people say "I feel like I can't even say what I think any more without fear of ", that's not a good sign. On MN they're usually opposed to trans rights, in the wider internet/world it'll generally be something racist/sexist/homophobic. Political correctness gorn mad innit. I'm ok with not hearing those views.

When a country invades it's smaller, less powerful neighbour, it's never a case of "two sides to every story".

I pretty much agree with the gist of this.
janeseymour78 · 08/03/2022 01:11

Dont forget transphobe versus terfs. I know loads of women who have done so much for other women who are now being cancelled.

I was even challenged for following the wrong kind of person on Twitter. There is no nuance anymore.

Original poster
allmixedup12 · 08/03/2022 01:11

@cuno

I'm confused why you would need to be discussing this at work though, OP.
because i talking about non work things at work too. am i unique?
OP posts:
araiwa · 08/03/2022 01:13

You would lose your job for saying NATO expansion may be a contributing factor in the war?

Original poster
allmixedup12 · 08/03/2022 01:14

@araiwa

You would lose your job for saying NATO expansion may be a contributing factor in the war?
depends on who you work for and how public your role is
OP posts:
cuno · 08/03/2022 01:20

Political discussions aren't acceptable where I work. Touching on what's been in the news in general terms (i.e. isn't it awful for the Ukrainians) is okay, versus going on a lecture about NATO and the history behind Russia invading Ukraine? I don't understand why you feel the need to enlighten your colleagues on your thoughts on politics and history, I would think this is inappropriate no matter what "side" you are on.

Changeee15467 · 08/03/2022 01:21

"Dont forget transphobe versus terfs. I know loads of women who have done so much for other women who are now being cancelled."

Yep. I am pretty left wing and open minded. I have done a complete 180 on my views on sex and gender over the last year. I would never dare voice them for fear of losing my livelihood. All for wanting to protect women's rights.

Original poster
allmixedup12 · 08/03/2022 01:24

@cuno

Political discussions aren't acceptable where I work. Touching on what's been in the news in general terms (i.e. isn't it awful for the Ukrainians) is okay, versus going on a lecture about NATO and the history behind Russia invading Ukraine? I don't understand why you feel the need to enlighten your colleagues on your thoughts on politics and history, I would think this is inappropriate no matter what "side" you are on.
it is completely normal for us to discuss all kinds of topics at the workplace, it is a discussion, not enlightenment. only thing is that in recent times, if youre not "with it" - you're best keeping your mouth shut

what is so hard to understand in this? dont most people at the office discuss a wide variety of things? what do you talk about when you go for a pint/meal with your colleagues?

OP posts:
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