To think most people treat friends like they're disposable?

[IcecreamOnTheDaily]

I'm a person who has always valued really close friendships. Regardless of whether I've been single or not, my close friends are extremely important to me and I'm willing to put in the work to be consistent and reliable and there when they need me - if I'm particularly busy I'll still ensure to check in when I can and be there even if it's not super-convenient for me. Some of my friends I consider closer than my own family.

We often get told relationships take work and effort, but I'm finding increasingly that people don't apply this principle to friendships. It seems like a lot of people only want friendships on their own terms and purely at their own convenience - talk to me only when I feel like it, I'll reply only when I feel like it. It's socially acceptable to distance yourself from friends and fade them out of your life without any explanation, and if you feel upset at this, you're labelled 'clingy'. We're seemingly not allowed to have any expectations from friends, let alone articulate them. I find this especially strange given that many friendships last far longer than romantic relationships and our close friends may know us just as well, if not better, than our partners!

Of course, the same principle applies to friendships as romantic relationships, that no one should put up with toxic or abusive behaviour. I also get that people change and circumstances can impact our ability to be present as friends. But I do struggle with the idea that there is zero commitment in friendships and that people are happy to let them 'drift' or distance themselves without any explanation, even where people have been in each other's lives for decades. I have a best friend who is currently distancing herself from me without explanation and it is bloody hurtful, just as hurtful as previous break-ups even.

Yes I agree. People can be very thoughtless and selfish. One of life's rules should be to treat friends well. They are priceless.

I think a lot of the time people prioritise family and partners.

To a certain extent I get this, but I do think that when people spend time with partners and in-laws to the exclusion of their own friends and family they're playing a risky game- what about if they split up and they lose those people, then what?

Selfishness isn’t the only thing that kills friendships - rigid thinking and unrealistic expectations about the level of commitment does too.

Totally.

@D0lphine

I think a lot of the time people prioritise family and partners.

To a certain extent I get this, but I do think that when people spend time with partners and in-laws to the exclusion of their own friends and family they're playing a risky game- what about if they split up and they lose those people, then what?

My friend did this. Barely heard from her from one year to the next then we her and her dh split up, she was ringing and messaging me every single day, always at the most inconvenient of times but by then l had moved on and just didn't have the capacity to deal with it. She became very intense so l had to gently step back a little.

Thanks everyone for your comments. I accept that not everyone may share my view of friendships and maybe I need to modify my expectations a bit so as not to get hurt. Equally though I don't recognise the view of friendships I often see on here which is that people don't want them or need them, that all they need is their DH and/or DC. What would happen if the relationship ended or when the kids fly the nest in that case?

I don't believe I 'overinvest' into my friendships by dumping all my problems on them or expecting them to be at my beck and call. The opposite in fact, I'm usually the one reaching out and seeing how they're doing and how their kids/work/pets are. I have a lovely DH and a busy life but even so, my personal view of friendships is that they require effort. One friend of mine has two DC under 3 and I'm totally accepting of the fact that she's not going to be messaging me for long periods of time. We all go through periods where we're not going to be as available but I still will do my very best to show my friends that I care and am here to listen in whatever capacity I can. It's this attitude that friendships just 'drift' that bothers me - I'd love to see people be more proactive about maintaining close friendships. But I accept that it's not always going to happen and not everyone feels that way.

You have summed it up perfectly. I believe it's the way we communicate now, where as years ago a phone call or face to face were the typical communication methods where there's lots of opportunity for connection and sharing and openness. Now we hide behind texts, it's not the same so people find themselves disconnected from friends. Also the quick gratification of social media means people are easily board and constantly looking for next best thing.

@autienotnaughty I think there's truth to that. A lot of people claim to be too busy to reply to a message or call a friend but are constantly posting on social media or sending random messages on group. For me it comes back to this culture of 'everything on my terms' - an overemphasis on personal space and boundaries at the expense of connection. It's no wonder that loneliness is rife in society when people make such minimal effort and treat people with such little regard or care. I don't expect my relationships to always be convenient or fun - sometimes my close friends really irritate me! But I believe that it's worth investing the time and effort.

[quote IcecreamOnTheDaily]@autienotnaughty I think there's truth to that. A lot of people claim to be too busy to reply to a message or call a friend but are constantly posting on social media or sending random messages on group. For me it comes back to this culture of 'everything on my terms' - an overemphasis on personal space and boundaries at the expense of connection. It's no wonder that loneliness is rife in society when people make such minimal effort and treat people with such little regard or care. I don't expect my relationships to always be convenient or fun - sometimes my close friends really irritate me! But I believe that it's worth investing the time and effort.[/quote]
Totally agree with everything you've said !

I also agree that investing in friendships means you might not just get the fun stuff. But people are allowed to choose which friends they are willing to invest in. You aren't obligated once you're friends with someone to always maintain that friendship. Tbh if someone has reached a point where they're having to state their boundaries, it means they aren't that into that particular friendship enough to invest. That doesn't mean they'll wind up lonely etc. And that is a godawful reason to be friends. Fear of one day being lonely forcing you to invest more in friendships you don't really want. Sounds terrible.

[quote IcecreamOnTheDaily]@autienotnaughty I think there's truth to that. A lot of people claim to be too busy to reply to a message or call a friend but are constantly posting on social media or sending random messages on group. For me it comes back to this culture of 'everything on my terms' - an overemphasis on personal space and boundaries at the expense of connection. It's no wonder that loneliness is rife in society when people make such minimal effort and treat people with such little regard or care. I don't expect my relationships to always be convenient or fun - sometimes my close friends really irritate me! But I believe that it's worth investing the time and effort.[/quote]
But people are allowed to decide that a particular friendship isn't worth the time and effort anymore.

Some friendships can be draining and bad for your mental health. It's not wrong to decide that you no longer want to invest in that friendship. In fact - I'd say it's a sign of healthy boundaries and good self-esteem to decide that someone is causing you more issues than they're solving, and to move on.

I've had friends in the past who ended up being very difficult to be around. In the end, I dreaded our conversations because they were always so negative and if I wasn't replying to their messages right away, they'd take huge personal offence.

It's okay for people to be online and not responding to you. It doesn't make them rude because they're prioritising someone else's messages over yours.

It really comes down to personality & preferences I think. Different people have different expectations and you need to find likeminded souls with similar friendship values. Eg one person may value consistency and habit, like a weekly call or coffee together or whatever, even if there's not that much to report. For another flexibility and freedom is more important and a weekly arrangement is constraining. Some people feel very easily hurt and find it difficult to move on if a friend makes remarks they feel were thoughtless. Others are less bothered (or have worse memories :-)).

I stepped back a bit from a friendship recently because the friend was consistently late or poor at getting back to me about meet ups. She's a lovely person but just flaky and she got my stress levels up. I still like her and am happy to have her over at my house but I will no longer make the effort to organise a coffee or meal out.

Personally I think ghosting is very cruel. At least explain why someone has upset you to the point you no longer want anything to do with them.

Re the 'only on my terms' thing. Yes I've noticed that too and it's sad. Possibly a sign of our times, I don't know. I'm not sure it's a younger generation thing because my teen DC are not like that and there close friends don't seem to be like that either.

@fairylightsandwaxmelts

Exactly this. People are very quick to set very rigid thresholds for what they expect from their friends and then get annoyed when these can't be adhered to.

We don't examine this enough, I think. Your expectations of what you want from a friendship (very much like those you want from a romantic relationship) are created in childhood/school and people spend a lot of time using their friends to act out and foist unresolved issues.

I've seen this happen so many times with friends who go back years: a kind of dependency develops whereby people lean on their friends for succour and support and treat them as unpaid shrinks without stopping to consider what the other party needs and to think about whether the friendship serves its purpose. I have a really old friend (30+ years) who still calls me periodically to cry down the phone about stuff. In a way its nice to have that continuity and intimacy but I sometimes feel quite burdened with it: I'm expected to drop work to counsel her on a job or relationship issue etc.

At risk of sounding like a dick, we need to be a bit more "conscious" about friendships and a bit more able to adapt. A friendship model that served you at a particular juncture of your life (such as the end of a romantic relationship) may not serve either of you permanently. There has to be a bit of "give" and an ability to read the room if the other friend isn't getting what they need.

Ghosting people, ignoring messages for weeks, not turning up all the time etc are all shit behaviours, clearly. But when people find they are repeatedly on the receiving end of this sort of thing there's sometimes a lack of self-awareness as to why this might be happening.

Hear, hear @thepeopleversuswork. Too many people on this and other threads are eloquent about the shortcomings of the friend who doesn’t do enough ‘checking in’ without also asking whether the person who feels neglected by that level of contact has asked themselves questions about their own behaviour and expectations. Because they, too, are wanting the dynamic on their own terms. The person who always initiates the contact is reflecting their own desires just as much as the person who seldom initiates contact or only accepts some invitations — neither is ‘right’, it’s a matter of mismatched expectations.

Someone who sent me daily messages and wanted weekly calls or meetings or to do the school run daily together I would experience as bothersome.

Equally though I don't recognise the view of friendships I often see on here which is that people don't want them or need them, that all they need is their DH and/or DC.

I believe that the people who say they 'don't need thse friendship' don't even stop to realise that they ahve a support network in a different - their wider family. It's all the siiblings, aunt/uncles/nieces and nephews etc... that are there all the time. There is the assumption that children will stay around, not too far and be justbas involved with them as they are with their own parents.
And they are often people who have close friends, dating way back from primary school type. Maybe one or two of those but enough for them to treat anyone else as aquaintances tat ou pick up and dish as you feel like it.

Because they have theis whole system around them and feels so solid that they dont need to make much effeor.

People who are truly alone, dependent on their frends as support network (eg to have a socila life!) don't behave as carelessly I think.

Travelling yes, that might well be the case. I see it a lot on MN.

That said, I thought I had a good support network before lockdown and the reasons for them going...I will never find out if true really. (Apart from the ones who moved out of the area, which is obviously different.)

@TravellingFrom

People who say they don't need anyone apart from their DH and children mainly seem to be depressed people tbh: I have observed that most of the people who say this seem to suffer from social anxiety and have become too over-reliant on them immediate families because they find social contact difficult so this is just an excuse for the fact that they hate going out.

An awful lot of people pop up on the introvert threads saying "I hate all people except my husband and children." It's totally bone-headed tbh: how did you meet your husband in the first place if you never went out?

I'm not sure this is what's been talked about here though: I think the OP is very different in her approach and massively values external friendships. And that's a really good thing btw. Friendship is one of the greatest gifts in life. People can be incredibly inflexible about it and the expectations put on friends are very unrealistic.

Casual friends, often yes; but I have had the good fortune to have some very long-term and loyal friends.

"For me it comes back to this culture of 'everything on my terms' - an overemphasis on personal space and boundaries at the expense of connection."
.................................
OP I must add...Please consider those who REQUIRE personal space and boundaries.
It's not that I am selfish for liking / loving my solitude. It is that I HAVE to have it...Not all of us have a Social personality.

I think that must be hard for extroverts to understand this. I will go to family reunions and catch up and sneak away to a bedroom to be in silence. To stop the chatter and too much stimulation.
That's just who I am.

@PiperPosey

Why is it only hard for extroverts to understand this? And why is it always necessary to reduce any discussion about friendship and social life to the tiresome and reductive introverts = sensitive and thoughtful vs extroverts = loud and needy dialectic?

I'm on the extrovert end of the spectrum but I also require space, I love solitude and I definitely need good friendship boundaries. That's who I am too but I don't have to see everything in terms of my introvert/extrovert status.

@PiperPosey

"For me it comes back to this culture of 'everything on my terms' - an overemphasis on personal space and boundaries at the expense of connection." ................................. OP I must add...Please consider those who REQUIRE personal space and boundaries. It's not that I am selfish for liking / loving my solitude. It is that I HAVE to have it...Not all of us have a Social personality.

I think that must be hard for extroverts to understand this. I will go to family reunions and catch up and sneak away to a bedroom to be in silence. To stop the chatter and too much stimulation.
That's just who I am.

Yes but I dubt that people who needs personal space are also the ones like the OP is describing who was contacting her everyday.

I think it's pretty clear when someone is an introvert. It's obvious right from the start when you become friends. If that was such an issue, you wouldnt become friends in the first place?

It's very different than saying that everything has to be 'on my terms' which is in my experience a very variable target. One day Im expecteing daily cntact and then a few months later I can't be bothered to answer any texts.

[quote thepeopleversuswork]@PiperPosey

Why is it only hard for extroverts to understand this? And why is it always necessary to reduce any discussion about friendship and social life to the tiresome and reductive introverts = sensitive and thoughtful vs extroverts = loud and needy dialectic?

I'm on the extrovert end of the spectrum but I also require space, I love solitude and I definitely need good friendship boundaries. That's who I am too but I don't have to see everything in terms of my introvert/extrovert status.[/quote]
Ok... I respect your opinion.

I was just wanting to add to the comments. It's not a cultural thing to me personally. It is my personality.
There are those who can't understand my choosing to live without a lot of social interation.

Sorry I triggered you... damn.

@TravellingFrom
Yes but I dubt that people who needs personal space are also the ones like the OP is describing who was contacting her everyday.

Thank you for explaining that to me Travelling

I literally have one friend who has been my best friend since secondary school. All the other school mums I have made through the years have fallen by the wayside especially since covid .
I had one other person who I considered a good friend but she has gradually been becoming more distant the past few months and Im no longer prepared to keep putting the effort in.

As others have explained, it really is necessary to align expectations with the particular friends you have and decide if you can still enjoy a friendship when you "read the room" to find the person only has limited time to give you, rather than simply demand that they give you more time because that's what you want. Being annoyed when you're quietly sidelined isn't fair when you've been trampling over someone's boundaries.

If you have a small circle and a quiet life, then yes it sounds like perhaps your time is allocated rather differently than if you have a large number of friends, family and acquaintances. Most of my close long-term friends (15+ years) I see a few times per year, usually in groups who all know each other or have got to know each other over the years. If one drifts off for a year or so being busy that's fine, if they call every day for a while because they need support that's fine too. If they call every day for months then that's actually not fine, because that takes away from the time that I spend with other people including DH, DS, DS friend parents, neighbours, family etc. It does make me a little wary with new acquaintances who immediately start contacting me a lot.

MRex "rather than simply demand that they give you more time because that's what you want"

Has anyone here said they do that though? I can't imagine demanding someone's time.