To think most people treat friends like they're disposable?

[IcecreamOnTheDaily]

I'm a person who has always valued really close friendships. Regardless of whether I've been single or not, my close friends are extremely important to me and I'm willing to put in the work to be consistent and reliable and there when they need me - if I'm particularly busy I'll still ensure to check in when I can and be there even if it's not super-convenient for me. Some of my friends I consider closer than my own family.

We often get told relationships take work and effort, but I'm finding increasingly that people don't apply this principle to friendships. It seems like a lot of people only want friendships on their own terms and purely at their own convenience - talk to me only when I feel like it, I'll reply only when I feel like it. It's socially acceptable to distance yourself from friends and fade them out of your life without any explanation, and if you feel upset at this, you're labelled 'clingy'. We're seemingly not allowed to have any expectations from friends, let alone articulate them. I find this especially strange given that many friendships last far longer than romantic relationships and our close friends may know us just as well, if not better, than our partners!

Of course, the same principle applies to friendships as romantic relationships, that no one should put up with toxic or abusive behaviour. I also get that people change and circumstances can impact our ability to be present as friends. But I do struggle with the idea that there is zero commitment in friendships and that people are happy to let them 'drift' or distance themselves without any explanation, even where people have been in each other's lives for decades. I have a best friend who is currently distancing herself from me without explanation and it is bloody hurtful, just as hurtful as previous break-ups even.

I think the value of friendships can be underestimated- people (e.g. on here) sometimes talk as if friends can be brushed aside or replaced at a whim and nobody has any right to feel hurt by that. Then again friendships do evolve and change with time/circumstances so sometimes you have to try and accept reality rather than making unrealistic demands based on a ‘template’ of what you think a friend should be.
I make what effort I can to keep friendships alive (in my 50s) but wouldn’t pursue friendship with someone who had obviously distanced herself and wanted it to be one sided.

Post lockdown, I know exactly what you mean. Did it happen to you before? I’m thinking perhaps some people consider me too full on after things I’ve read on here.

I don’t agree, OP. My friends are consumingly important to me, and I’ve kept many longterm despite moving a lot. However, I get impatient with the ‘friendship as obligation’ stuff I see unquestioned on here so often. I don’t need ‘regular check-ins’, I would hate the idea that anyone was phoning or seeing me when it really didn’t suit them, and I certainly expect space, and to give space, when it’s needed. I don’t resent it if someone needs months out without explanation.

I wonder if some people find making new friends from scratch easier than others or at least assume it to be easy and this is why there are different attitudes.

I know for a fact I'm complete shite at it so value the friends I have.

I can see both sides of this.

It is definitely true some people make less effort when a friend is harder to see: either because they are in a relationship or because the friendship circles are less aligned. And if you are on the receiving end it can feel like it’s only been a friendship of expediency. It’s really easy to arrange to meet if your DHs are bothe friendly, you have to make far more effort if there’s no natural link. It doesn’t feel good when people clearly can’t be arsed to go outside their comfort zone; it makes you feel expendable.

On the other hand people can be quite unrealistic about this. Maintenance of friendships gets much harder when people have spouses and children and jobs and when everyone is geographically dispersed. Sometimes for your own sanity you have to be able to say no to stuff. People need to have the empathy to realise that maintaining a social life on top of all this can be like 3D chess.

I have some friends who I have known for several decades but who I see twice a year. Because we are busy, live in different places, have things going on. It’s unreasonable to get the hump every time someone backs out of an event or can’t drop everything to come and visit.

We all need to accept that friendships wax anc wane and there are periods when they are more difficult to sustain and be more tolerant about it.

@Erinyes

I don’t agree, OP. My friends are consumingly important to me, and I’ve kept many longterm despite moving a lot. However, I get impatient with the ‘friendship as obligation’ stuff I see unquestioned on here so often. I don’t need ‘regular check-ins’, I would hate the idea that anyone was phoning or seeing me when it really didn’t suit them, and I certainly expect space, and to give space, when it’s needed. I don’t resent it if someone needs months out without explanation.

So your friends are really important to you but if they vanish for months at a time, you don’t worry?

@EmmaH2022

I am fine with not seeing my friends for months at a time. We are all busy and don’t live locally: why should that matter? If you are good enough friends it shouldn’t.

*I would struggle with friendships that required lots of checking in and regular/daily contact. It's just not something I enjoy and I actually find it quite stressful.

It's not that I have no commitment to my friends, more that I'm juggling lots of other things too - work, family, hobbies, my own relationship and other friendships - and I need time to myself too.*

Agree with this. Many of the people I’m friends with are the same but we also live in different places and time zones. When we Skype, it’s like nothing has changed. We’ve been friends since secondary or uni.

I have had friends who needed constant contact but they also needed someone to take care of them, enable them, struggled to be alone, some needed to be the centre of attention and even turned jealous when I wouldn’t invite them to things I was invited to or me having separate friend groups. It became exhausting after awhile and ended things even if that meant walking away from other acquaintances attached to them.

It sounds like the friendship isn't quite meeting her needs right now and you're communicating more than she wants. Are you both perhaps just having different life experiences at the moment where she has others it's easier to bond with about shared experiences; career changes, relationships changing, children etc? Sometimes people are more or less present in our lives, and paradoxically allowing for that ebb and flow is what keeps the friendship going throughout all the life changes. Fighting for more of her attention won't really help if that isn't what she wants right now. Find some other friends to round out your life for now.

I think part of the problem is that friendships never become official in the same way as relationships. You don’t reach a point where an awkward conversation about not seeing other people happens, and you don’t tend to move in together, get married etc.

This means that it’s perfectly normal for one person to view the someone as a close friend, while the other sees them as friendly acquaintances rather than anything deeper.

It is hurtful to be cut off, I'd never do that
but sometimes I just get overwhelmed by the amount of people in my life, I'll admit I have let friendships drift. I left my phone in the car last week and came out to over 70 messages over a few different chats. Work friends, friends, volunteer group friends, old uni friends etc I feel like life is busier these days. I remember my mum having one or two friends round occasionally, there wasn't constant nights out with multiple groups etc I get people fatigue.

OP, I can understand that you would like your friend to at least give a reason why she doesn't seem to want to be as close as you used to be. The thing is that the truth is probably quite upsetting (ie she just doesn't like you as much as she used to, and has other friends she prefers to spend time with) and she is trying to spare your feelings. Would it really help you to hear something like that, or would it just hurt more?

I agree @IcecreamOnTheDaily
And tbh the general attitude is reflected on threads here. Exactely as you are describing. People labelled clingy as soon as they ask for more than what the person wants etc…
And at the same time, you have many threads in how people are lonely and isolated and they are told it can’t be helped etc….

Personally I see it as a reflection of a very individualised society.

There is also the fact that people hate confrontation and have no idea of how to be assertive, preferring being PA instead. Or fading away/ghosting people as a kind way to end a friendship/resolve an issue.

I remember my mum having one or two friends round occasionally, there wasn't constant nights out with multiple groups etc I get people fatigue.

My mum was the same way. She had a group of friends from high school that I saw from time to time every few months sometimes longer. My dad would go visit friends before came hone from work, some he would meet up at the barber shop during their twice a month visits. His evenings were at home though so it was more like he scheduled the time in as routine. Saying that, all his friends are local and they have all been living in the same area since they were born.

X post with @GiantSpider.

Here we go…. It’s kinder for you not to tell you what’s going on and not allow you that closure.

Rather than I hate confrontation and I can’t be bothered to be truthful and kind.

My son was stillborn during lockdown and lots of the friends I thought were true just stopped wanting anything to do with me after a while. I guess my need to grieve my son was getting in the way of me wanting to go for nights out and I wasn't any fun for them anymore. But it showed me they weren't who I thought they were so I haven't spent the same time with them and to be honest I've let the friendships fizzle out.
I have two very close friends who I trust totally, and we work very well together to make time for each other.

I don't think intense friendships anything but draining nowadays. I prefer to have many friends I check in with periodically.

@phoenixrosehere

I totally agree with this. I think there’s sometimes a tendency for people to use their friends as relationship/family substitutes and to become incredibly needy.

You see it all the time on here: someone says their friend has stood them up twice and the replies will come back: “she’s not your friend. Block her,” etc. it’s completely unrealistic and honestly quite hysterical (I know I shouldn’t use that word but it’s true).

I think when women are younger they can become very dependent on their friendship circle because of the support needed for the difficult transition to adulthood but for most people maintaining that level of intimacy with friends long term is neither practical nor desirable.

The trouble is when there is a mismatch in expectation of the relationship and one person regrets from it without explanation.

I think the pandemic has made most of us more insular and inward looking. We haven’t had the casual contacts we were used to and we’re still not really in a position to regain them.

@EmmaH2022, if they’ve said ‘I need space’, then that takes precedence over my feelings about it, surely. If people have stuff going on that they want me to know about, or want my input in, they’ll say so. I don’t cluck about, signalling my availability.

I don't know about most people OP but my close friendships don't feel like that at all. We treasure each other. I have 4 close friends who I've known between 10-30+ years. 2 live too far away to see more than once a year but we keep in touch via phone/ft.

I agree though that some people want intense friendships and some don't and you have to find your 'tribe'. One of my less close friends clearly doesn't want anything intense and I'm fine with that as I have other closer friends I have a more intense friendship with.

I understand this, and it stings sometimes, when I see l pics of a friend socialising after she's turned me down. I've just put her on the back burner and don't see her pics on fb anymore. Don't need her rubbing it in my face.

However, I have an elderly neighbour who has found herself completely alone after her dh died. She spent her whole married life with just her dh and drifted fr her family & friends. They didn't have children and no she is alone and the expectation is on me to provide her with company.

I think people are a bit short sighted when they cut themselves off after meeting a partner. The partner will not be around forever and what happens when they die or leave? It's far healthier to have an assortment of different people around you then to rely on one person alone. I see it on various threads on Mnet where posters declare they don't need friends because they have their partner & or kids. They often haven't considered life after their kids and or partner have left died or them.

** I agree. I put in a lot of work into my friendships and find it's not reciprocated.
If someone treats me badly though I just cut them off. I'm too old to be giving chance after chance.**

^Me too

@Alrightqueenie: I think people are a bit short sighted when they cut themselves off after meeting a partner. The partner will not be around forever and what happens when they die or leave? It's far healthier to have an assortment of different people around you then to rely on one person alone. I see it on various threads on Mnet where posters declare they don't need friends because they have their partner & or kids. They often haven't considered life after their kids and or partner have left died or them.

This

I don't really bother with alot of People now. I've been used too many times. I have 4 friends and we see each other when we can. I have a young child as do 2 of my friends. 1 of them is busy with teenagers and a long distance relationship and one lives quite far. I'm friendly with work colleagues and we have nights out/ tea about 5 to 6 times a year. That's enough for me really