To feel distressed and heartbroken re Ukraine’s increasingly desperate pleas for help?

[UltraLightfly]

You can hear the desperation in their president’s (and former presidents) voices now. They are BEGGING for physical help. Begging for a no-fly zone to be implemented.

I KNOW we can’t do anything as it’ll cause WW3, but tonight, listening to a former presidents and the current presidents desperate pleas is actually quite distressing. Heartbreaking. Those poor people being left to their fate with the Russians

@LizzieMacQueen that is not a solution! You cannot sacrifice Ukraine and think everything will be ok. He is going for the ex soviet countries, who are you willing to sacrifice next? Moldova, Latvia? He is not going to stop. Same as Hitler after taking Czechoslovakia. He guaranteed he would not annex another country, a year later he invaded Poland. You cannot appease a madman. Appeasement is NEVER a solution. I would hope somebody wouldn’t give the UK away to save their own skin. Wouldn’t you?

@LizzieMacQueen

There is a solution. Let him take Ukraine without further fighting on the understanding of two things,

Those who don't want to live under his rule are allowed a safe exit.

Any 'western' country is allowed to join NATO asap so they have that protection going forward.

I don't agree, Ukraine is not 'ours' to bargain with. Why should Ukrainians accept someone taking their country from them? It is up to nobody but Ukraine.

When it comes to whether Putin would invade other countries, I'm on the fence about this. I expect he would ideally want to, but whether he CAN is a different matter entirely. First, he's shown the world that the Russian military isn't what we believed it to be and he's spent a colossal amount of money in the process, and Russia's economy is tremendously damaged. Also, I suspect that invading Ukraine would not have been the red line for the people around him to seriously challenge his ability to rule, but invading a NATO country may will be.

Sadly, I do agree that NATO cannot impose a no-fly zone. I don't think it's a matter of anyone's children being more important than anyone else's- if a major conflict were to break out, no one's children would be safe. The children who have sought refuge in other European countries deserve to be safe in them; it doesn't help them to risk the conflict spilling over.

@LizzieMacQueen

There is a solution. Let him take Ukraine without further fighting on the understanding of two things,

Those who don't want to live under his rule are allowed a safe exit.

Any 'western' country is allowed to join NATO asap so they have that protection going forward.

Why the hell should people have to abandon their country to a fucking nut job like Putin? Would you seriously just let that happen? I’m damn sure I would not. Women in Scotland are fighting our government about our rights and I’m sure we would fight to save our country too for all it’s faults now if we were invaded by a nut job’s army.

Oh I know it's hardly a solution but I'm think out loud about what would result in the fewest deaths & casualties. It's a cowards way faced with a bully but I'd rather be a live coward than a dead hero!

As for, well Putin won't stop there - maybe - but who's to say he will?

Isn't trying to de escalate a better option than escalating? (NFZ).

@LizzieMacQueen

There is a solution. Let him take Ukraine without further fighting on the understanding of two things,

Those who don't want to live under his rule are allowed a safe exit.

Any 'western' country is allowed to join NATO asap so they have that protection going forward.

This is never going to happen, truly it isn't. However, he's trying to recreate the old Soviet/Imperial Russian borders and (thankfully, due to brave people) he has bitten off rather too much with the Ukraine.

We (very big we) might need to find a face saving compromise in the shorter term, but Putin is finished, one way or another, in the longer.

Sorry, old habits die hard, Ukraine. I am learning better ways.

I can’t stop thinking about all of them. Also can’t stop thinking of the animals left behind and worrying that many will be locked in houses without food dying a slow death as people would be too afraid to leave them on the street. At least outside they might have had a fighting chance of someone helping though 😢 It’s like the situation just can’t get anymore sad then you hear something else. This is literally happening right this second ☹️ There were stories of people being trapped under buildings etc. The video on sky news of them coming for the reporters car and them having to abandon it and run is completely terrifying! Makes it way more real 😞

I feel like no one can even make a prediction on Putin’s next move anymore. I do think about it all day though that he it metaphorically just hovering over the big red button with the power to end my life any time he likes. It’s so bizarre as in a civilised country we have never had to think like this at all before ever 😕 I’m genuinely sitting mapping a way out for us wondering if moving to Australia would be the best bet 🤦🏼‍♀️

@LizzieMacQueen there are worse things than death. Living under the rule of a Putin for one, I would fight to the death for my rights and for those of future generations. I don’t think you can begin to comprehend a life without freedom. Why do you think the Ukrainians are fighting so hard?

@LizzieMacQueen

Oh I know it's hardly a solution but I'm think out loud about what would result in the fewest deaths & casualties. It's a cowards way faced with a bully but I'd rather be a live coward than a dead hero!

As for, well Putin won't stop there - maybe - but who's to say he will?

Isn't trying to de escalate a better option than escalating? (NFZ).

You're right about deescalation being the ideal goal. But not at the expense of Ukraine's sovereignty. That would show that he can take whatever he likes with impunity. A success would embolden him, it might 'solve' the immediate problem but if he decided to set his sights on further expansion, the same problem exists and Ukraine has lost its sovereignty to boot.

I don't think he would have stopped at Ukraine, I do think the plan was originally to retake more countries subsequently. I do sincerely hope that he has lost enough credibility with his own people and enough money that it will curtail his plans, it would be great if he just dropped dead.

I agree that deescalation with an 'off ramp' so that he can claim some kind of victory at home would be the best outcome, but that off ramp can't be to just allow him to take Ukraine.

@Sarah13xx

I can’t stop thinking about all of them. Also can’t stop thinking of the animals left behind and worrying that many will be locked in houses without food dying a slow death as people would be too afraid to leave them on the street. At least outside they might have had a fighting chance of someone helping though 😢 It’s like the situation just can’t get anymore sad then you hear something else. This is literally happening right this second ☹️ There were stories of people being trapped under buildings etc. The video on sky news of them coming for the reporters car and them having to abandon it and run is completely terrifying! Makes it way more real 😞

I feel like no one can even make a prediction on Putin’s next move anymore. I do think about it all day though that he it metaphorically just hovering over the big red button with the power to end my life any time he likes. It’s so bizarre as in a civilised country we have never had to think like this at all before ever 😕 I’m genuinely sitting mapping a way out for us wondering if moving to Australia would be the best bet 🤦🏼‍♀️

We have had to think like this before . WW2 and the Cuban Missile Crisis for starters. It was OK then and I really believe that there is every hope it will be OK now.

There is no big red button, there are as far as anyone knows layers of military he would have to go through to implement a nuclear strike and I would put good money on all of them being more grounded than him.

It is pointless telling you not to worry but please try not to worry too much

I am worried that the narrative is beginning to turn in favour of escalation. Some elements of the media and social media (including MN) are beginning to push a pro-war agenda and accusing those who are anti-war of being pro-Russian. Escalation of this conflict is not the answer.

@TellMeMoreHellebore

to be honest we are just delaying it

ww3 is inevitable. it will happen because it wont stop at ukraine.

herding the whole of ukraine into other countries....feels like he's rounding us all up. also feels like we[ve not yet met the might of the Russian forces. he's sent out kids in antiquated tanks. wheres the bigger, better tanks?

These kinds of posts are completely baseless and are no “help” whatsoever.

@Sarah13xx

I can’t stop thinking about all of them. Also can’t stop thinking of the animals left behind and worrying that many will be locked in houses without food dying a slow death as people would be too afraid to leave them on the street. At least outside they might have had a fighting chance of someone helping though 😢 It’s like the situation just can’t get anymore sad then you hear something else. This is literally happening right this second ☹️ There were stories of people being trapped under buildings etc. The video on sky news of them coming for the reporters car and them having to abandon it and run is completely terrifying! Makes it way more real 😞

I feel like no one can even make a prediction on Putin’s next move anymore. I do think about it all day though that he it metaphorically just hovering over the big red button with the power to end my life any time he likes. It’s so bizarre as in a civilised country we have never had to think like this at all before ever 😕 I’m genuinely sitting mapping a way out for us wondering if moving to Australia would be the best bet 🤦🏼‍♀️

This anxiety is understandable, but remember that he isn't sitting there twiddling the red button between his fingers like a set of car keys. We have been here before, during the Cold War and the Cuban missile crisis. This nuclear sabre rattling is terrifying, but brinkmanship has been used before to try and intimidate the other side into backing down. Giving the impression of being crazy can make the effect even more intimidating, but that doesn't mean he really IS crazy, beyond being an absolute evil bastard.

Even if he was actually totally bananas and felt like going out with a bang, he would need the cooperation of others to do it. And they probably don't feel like being blown up just to let him do so.

I genuinely think the sabre rattling is a tactic to try and get the west to back off and test to see if it has the balls to stand firm, to see what he can get away with. It's meant to scare us so that we lose faith in the plan to sanction him and supply arms to Ukraine.

@RenegadeMasterx

Isn't it absolutely crazy, and utterly terrifying, that the entire world is scared shitless of one crazy little Russian. 😩😩 so much power.

He's bloody loving it, after years of being 'dismissed and disrespected' as he puts it. Ego revenge on the biggest scale possible.

@Furries ah well, we've all got something to say....'help' or otherwise

I was wondering earlier today, whether there would be wars at all if the main pattern for the world was feminine and if so, what would they look like

Like MN

Just a touch of levity to lighten the mood.

@MissAmbrosia

These things have gone on for years and years and years - Syria, Iraq, the Balkans, Yemen, Palestine etc etc. We did some of it ourselves or sold the weapons being used. It is dreadful, of course it is, but it's hard to understand now why it is only now that anyone cares (that doesn't have a racist interpretation) There are millions of refugees displaced from their homes due to war in the last 10 years alone.

Why is it hard to understand why people appear to care a lot more about this war than others?

For a start, it has the potential to escalate into WWIII. That's a massive worry.

So really with him threatening nuclear action , he has a huge hold over us all , so why would he stop at Ukraine ?
And I agree the Ukrainian children are every bit as important , how can you watch the news and not want to try and do something to help ,
The animals there too matter ,
Why cant one of his own "take him out" for being the absolute scum that he is

@nothingbutsnow

I was wondering earlier today, whether there would be wars at all if the main pattern for the world was feminine and if so, what would they look like

Like MN

Just a touch of levity to lighten the mood.

[quote TellMeMoreHellebore]@LittleBearPad cos the ones used so far are ancient! is that really the best they have got?[/quote]
@TellMeMoreHellebore most Russian equipment is left over from the USSR. Apart from a brief period during the gas boom, Russia couldn't afford to replace its old equipment. They're still operating 42 Tu-95s - those things are older than my parents!

They haven't even bothered maintaining their equipment. Basic stuff like turning wheels once a month to stop the tyres going brittle.

It’s so bizarre as in a civilised country we have never had to think like this at all before ever

As CPL593H says, you were obviously not around in the 80's of the last century.

We had the "cold war" between Russia and USA. I grew up with it.

Never thought it would be a feature of 2022. Absolutely terrifying.

To the PP who is pregnant, try to limit your exposure to the news. I was pregnant when the Balkan war was going on. I just couldn't watch it.

Everyone on this thread needs to understand that the dead children that we see lying in the street on the news every night are NOT less important than your children. Their parents didn't love them any less, they are no less worthy of protecting than your own children.

Amen

Western exceptionalism: "How can this happen in a civilised society, in 2022?"

Rest of world: "It never stopped".

colossal fucking bold fail there!

Ukraine needs to surrender. He is a madman and will destroy the world. Millions will die.

Let Putin think he's won. Play the long game. He's ill and in his 70s. Surrender will save lives until such time his evil has died.