To feel distressed and heartbroken re Ukraine’s increasingly desperate pleas for help?

[UltraLightfly]

You can hear the desperation in their president’s (and former presidents) voices now. They are BEGGING for physical help. Begging for a no-fly zone to be implemented.

I KNOW we can’t do anything as it’ll cause WW3, but tonight, listening to a former presidents and the current presidents desperate pleas is actually quite distressing. Heartbreaking. Those poor people being left to their fate with the Russians

We are a cruel country. Individually lovely, but our fucking government: 🤬

Strawberryjellyicecream

Intead of commenting how disgraceful my posts are, you should be pushing your own government for doing more than just rethoric - the UK has only accepted less than hundred applications for Ukranians leaving the war.

@MissAmbrosia

These things have gone on for years and years and years - Syria, Iraq, the Balkans, Yemen, Palestine etc etc. We did some of it ourselves or sold the weapons being used. It is dreadful, of course it is, but it's hard to understand now why it is only now that anyone cares (that doesn't have a racist interpretation) There are millions of refugees displaced from their homes due to war in the last 10 years alone.

It’s not hard to understand. Europeans feel more empathy towards and fear because it is happening within the same continent. It’s close to home. It’s a form of (unconscious, or not) racism, but it’s certainly not hard to understand.

I am glad for what the UK has done so far, but the UK government has not done nearly enough for Ukrainian refugees or on sanctions.

Where have the 1.7 million Ukrainian refugees gone? Not to the UK, that's for sure. As of yesterday, the Home Office had granted about 50 visas, which is about 1% of the just over 5,000 applications received. Today, the applications have reached about 10,000. How many visas have been granted? Let's guess not many more than another 50. Let's not forget that the UK is only allowing applications from those with close family settled here or with a sponsor.

On sanctions, in contrast to other countries, the UK government has been achingly slow in the vast majority of cases, allowing Russian-linked, Putin-supporting oligarchs and others to sell, move and hide their assets. There is more than a whiff of corruption about this.

If we really cannot involve ourselves in the no-fly zone, we should at the very least be doing all we can to help refugees and on sanctions. So far, the UK government's inactions on both are shameful.

Anyway I will not converse with anybody who blames the Western world or NATO for Putin’s insane, evil, murderous actions

Good. I prefer to have a conversation who understand what the Western world had done for the past 2000 years beginning with the Roman Empire. Putin is no more insane than Kennedy L Johnson - both were Presidents of the US when agent orange, a chemical warfare was used on the civilian Vietnamese population.

Or the fact, that the US is the only country who has detonated a nuclear bomb against civilians in Japan.

Or the fact that the US kept maintaining the Saudi regime even when they trained BL.

Or the fact that in this Ukranian war, the US is the biggest winner. UK and the EU are going to buy their oil at higher prices that will be paid by consumers.

@Alondra

Anyway I will not converse with anybody who blames the Western world or NATO for Putin’s insane, evil, murderous actions

Good. I prefer to have a conversation who understand what the Western world had done for the past 2000 years beginning with the Roman Empire. Putin is no more insane than Kennedy L Johnson - both were Presidents of the US when agent orange, a chemical warfare was used on the civilian Vietnamese population.

Or the fact, that the US is the only country who has detonated a nuclear bomb against civilians in Japan.

Or the fact that the US kept maintaining the Saudi regime even when they trained BL.

Or the fact that in this Ukranian war, the US is the biggest winner. UK and the EU are going to buy their oil at higher prices that will be paid by consumers.

🙄 where to even start? Best not to.

mellongoose

You can start by debating if what I have posted is wrong.

It’s not just wrong, it’s irrelevant. What has it got to do with how we see and react to the current atrocities happening?

It's not irrelevant. Geopolitics and control for global resources are not just the current war in Ukraine. If you think this war is the act of a madman, you haven't been following what has been happening in the Russia- Ukraine conflict for last few years. This war is the result of failing weak EU diplomacy and push from NATO with the country that gives it more funding - the US.

I rarely read the Daily Mail but Peter Hitchens' article is surprisignly fair. No wonder it doesn't accept comments.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10581335/PETER-HITCHENS-saw-coming-Thats-wont-join-carnival-hypocrisy.html

@Strawberryjellyicecream

I think you've been very measured in your responses and tried your best. I admire your tenacity lol.

@Strawberryjellyicecream

Alondra - are you under the impression any of us can individually influence historical geopolitics? If no, then you’re flogging a dead horse. Have some human empathy and stop using this as an excuse to demonstrate your knowledge of trivia.

None of us can influence what's happening in the world. We are expendable. Which is what I'm trying to say - this war is being fought by powers none of us can control but we are all going to suffer. Ukranians most of all and then the rest of us through higher energy and food prices.

This war is the result of failing weak EU diplomacy and push from NATO with the country that gives it more funding - the US.

Don't know if you've noticed, but this war is a result of Russia invading Ukraine. Russia who are now, once again demonstrating how not innocent they are in all this by targeting civilians and nuclear power plants.

Where have the 1.7 million Ukrainian refugees gone? Not to the UK, that's for sure. As of yesterday, the Home Office had granted about 50 visas, which is about 1% of the just over 5,000 applications received. Today, the applications have reached about 10,000. How many visas have been granted? Let's guess not many more than another 50. Let's not forget that the UK is only allowing applications from those with close family settled here or with a sponsor.
To make it even easier, they closed the application centre in Lviv this morning, where, I suspect, the majority of 10K applications were made. People need to cross the border and apply (re-apply) in Poland now.

I’m a little tired of racism being dragged into this. It’s a question of geography. Europe is where we in the U.K. live. What happens in Europe affects us. Whatever we do in the Middle East gets us criticism whether we intervene or not. Local politics there are invariably distant, involve hostilities going back centuries, and are hard for us to understand. It is a bit different to defending the frontiers of our own homeland.

(Local politics, in fact, being as hard for us living in Europe to understand, as it is for people from Africa or the Middle East to understand European.)

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10587231/Ukrainian-girl-7-killed-school-shelled-hero-grandfather-tried-save-her.html

So...how long will this shit be allowed to continue??

Honestly wars are rarely clear cut about who is in the wrong. In this case, it is very clear cut.
A dictator has invaded a democratic government. And all other countries are standing by and doing very little.

@alltheapples what do you suggest we do? The West is sanctioning the hell out of them and giving them weapons/aircraft etc.

If we do boots on the ground or a no fly zone many many more innocent people and children will die. And possibly the end of civilisation as we know it.

I totally get why the no fly zone is a no go but God Almighty it’s hard. I feel like we are abandoning them when you see civilians being bombed. I know realistically we are doing what we can but I still keep thinking, what if it was the UK? I am damn sure we would would a no fly zone imposing.

@Clarabe1

I totally get why the no fly zone is a no go but God Almighty it’s hard. I feel like we are abandoning them when you see civilians being bombed. I know realistically we are doing what we can but I still keep thinking, what if it was the UK? I am damn sure we would would a no fly zone imposing.

Looking at the videos/reading the reports it appears a lot, probably a large majority of the civilian casualties are not being caused by people being bombed, it is being caused artillery or rockets/missiles.

Imposing a no fly zone will not prevent that.

@Clarabe1 more importantly, imposing a no fly zone would = ww3 with Russia. Nobody wants that. Even without nuclear weapons on the table. A war on that scale is hugely damaging and not to be taken lightly. Also, After a global pandemic it really isn’t a good action to take.

I think just to be more clear than ‘WWIII with Russia’, you are asking for the next Russian missile to be aimed at your house.

Are you sure?

He's already done it. Why people can't see this I don't know. He's already done it