Not to pay childminders travel expenses

[AdviceNeeded367]

Last summer, Childminder asked for an extra £10 per week to help pay for activities while she has DS.

In December, she demanded a 27% payrise.

Today she has demanded a 45p per mile travel expense.

AIBU to tell her a flat No?

This.

Your set up is fairly similar to a respite provision that I work for. Carers are self employed but regulated by the local County Council and are subject to similar scrutiny to those fostering. The service is for young adults with learning disabilities. The flat rate for overnight respite in your own home is £60 for a 24 hour period. Expenses such as outings are billed for additionally. The £60 includes food and all utilities. Parents are expected to drop off and collect to and from the carers home. Petrol is billed if it is a journey taken specifically for the individual rather myself or my family.( I personally only provide day care which is billed at a hourly rate in line with minimum wage)

I've always understood that, unless you are the child's grandparent, if you look after someone else's child in your own home and are paid to do it then you must register as a childminder and be subject to inspection by Ofsted, or you would be working illegally.

You've got an incredibly cushy (and cheap care) arrangement. It's incredibly hard to find good, consistent childcare.

Add in the SEN cover and weekend sole charge in her own house...

You need to check your outrage at her reasonable request to receive reimbursement of travel costs. She needs your child to be at her house for the respite care and you can't deliver him to her. Therefore, you need to pay for this transport. You are being very unreasonable.

The flat rate for overnight respite in your own home is £60 for a 24 hour period

How the fuck do they get anyone to do it? That’s outrageous.

@yumscrumfatbum

Your set up is fairly similar to a respite provision that I work for. Carers are self employed but regulated by the local County Council and are subject to similar scrutiny to those fostering. The service is for young adults with learning disabilities. The flat rate for overnight respite in your own home is £60 for a 24 hour period. Expenses such as outings are billed for additionally. The £60 includes food and all utilities. Parents are expected to drop off and collect to and from the carers home. Petrol is billed if it is a journey taken specifically for the individual rather myself or my family.( I personally only provide day care which is billed at a hourly rate in line with minimum wage)

I'm trying to find a nice way of saying I don't find this completely transparent and accurate

@HecatePecate

I’m confused by the aunty/nephew comment earlier. Is this just a comparison, or are they actually related to you?

Oooh Hecate! I think this is the first time we've been on the same thread. I used to go by Hecate and variations thereof for years. I changed a few years back but I still do a double take when I see you and think for a second I posted 😂😂

I think some posters are misunderstanding that you only get paid hourly overnight if you are required to stay awake. A flat standard overnight is normal when you can also sleep on the job

It's not that simple - by a long shot. There is really complicated case law around the pay for people who spend part of their shift sleeping. If the carer is likely to be called during the night, the OP may well be breaking the law, as she's not paying minimum wage at night.

She needs specialist advice. A couple of hundred quid on a solicitor now could save her 1000s in a back claim from her employee, further down the line.

Give over.

You are paying a ridiculously low amount of money for your childcare. Teenage babysitters seem to get a better rate than you are paying.

Your child is:
A) being collected and returned
B) cared for for at least 36 hours
C) Fed
D) Participating in organised activities

All of this is included in your rate of less than £9 per hour (including expenses)

I’d have jacked this job in long ago. If you wish to keep this woman who is “like an aunt” I suggest you look after her better.

The 45p is a standard rate and has been for a while. It won’t take into account the rise in petrol prices recently. So it should probably be higher

Tricky one. What exactly do u mean by SEN as it covers a multitude of things, and also what age is DS? yes, she is being cheeky asking for another rise so soon, trying to milk it. Bt also she can say she won't do it anymore, can u afford this in a non-monetary way? definitely get this all in writing for a set amount of time with her, say a yea. Put that before her now id say

Askingforabaskin, it really is transparent and accurate. As I say not quite the same scenario as the op's but perhaps this explains it better than I did?
www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/care-services-equipment-and-care-homes/shared-lives-schemes/

Is she employed. Or self employed

If she’s employed. You pay mileage.

If she’s self employed. She Claims it on taxes…..

@Nocutenamesleft

Is she employed. Or self employed

If she’s employed. You pay mileage.

If she’s self employed. She Claims it on taxes…..

You don’t understand self employment, do you? Self employed people claim their mileage. I certainly did.

@AdviceNeeded367

The rate is workers out as so much per hour and then a nominal fee for the overnight, which is what she suggested when she suggested having DS overnight.

For the most part, they have an Aunty/nephew relationship, which is fantastic but the repeated requests for pay rises is frustrating.

I have agreed to pay her as an employee as she doesn’t want the faff of being self employed.

So you pay her tax. Her sickness. Her maternity?!?

Etc…

Yes. Sorry. Meant she claims it!

Sorry. Brain freeze.

@Blossomtoes

Ha. I was actually self employed for 20 years

But ha. Yes. Claims it I meant. God. I’m tired. My eyes are crossing I’m so tired.

@AdviceNeeded367

She is only “an employee” as she does not want the faff of being self employed. I use a nanny tax service for wages slips, tax calcs, NICs etc

Which is another expense on top of everything else.

She IS an employee because what she does for you ISN'T self employment (i.e. being in business). Have a look at the HMRC website which has an employment versus self employment questionnaire. As an employer, YOU do have to pay employers NIC, employer's pension, PLUS holiday pay, sickness/maternity pay, etc etc as well as the administration costs for doing so. You need to start accepting responsibility as her employer. It's a long way away from baby-sitting for a couple of hours.

@Nocutenamesleft

Is she employed. Or self employed

If she’s employed. You pay mileage.

If she’s self employed. She Claims it on taxes…..

No, self employed charge their clients for mileage if that's part of the job. HMRC don't pay it. I have clients who are solicitors, consultants, engineers, translators, decorators, house-sitters, caterers, etc who all charge their clients for mileage on their invoices which had be pre-agreed as part of their quotation/contract etc. I've always charged my clients mileage to their premises if they didn't want to come to my office (accountant).

Op, having read further into the thread I am becoming increasingly concerned . You say that she is on payroll, you pay tax and national insurance for her.
Therefore you should be paying her petrol, any money for outings and activities that she does with your child because she is your employee.
She also needs to be working at your home NOT hers.
There are extremely strict rules for childminders (childcarers who look after children in the childcarers home) especially regarding overnight care. Her home would need to be inspected and Ofsted would be involved.
There are strict monetary penalties for childcarers and parents who break the law.

I think that a lot of people are unfamiliar with respite care and getting hung up on the technicalities that aren't really relevant to your question.

She is not unreasonable to name the price she feels her time is worth. You are not unreasonable if you feel the service is not worth that. Nobody is forcing you to employ her or her to take the respite role.

All you have to do is decide how much the service is worth to you. Offer her that and she can either accept or decline. If you do this then she may decline and you will lose the respite care.

I'm a bit gobsmacked at the responses to my post.
I'm just going by a sudden 27% increase in prices.

It's a considerable amount. If the childminder was happy with the previous price, prior to the news about inflation for this current year, then a 27% increase is a huge amount.

Most folk would vote with their feet.
Given that a current thread is all about people giving up hairdressers, nail technicians, cleaners , gardeners .. all of whom are asking for a modest increase but are being dumped ... I don't know why a nanny/childminder, who is asking for a massive increase , should be any different.

@AdviceNeeded367

She is only “an employee” as she does not want the faff of being self employed. I use a nanny tax service for wages slips, tax calcs, NICs etc

Which is another expense on top of everything else.

You do understand that you are not doing her a favour? It's not her concern what your costs are.

If you value her service and want to keep her, pay her and do not sour the relationship.

You sound very out of touch with how difficult decent quality childcare is and how much is costs.

You have found someone who is willing to have your child in her own home all weekend from pick up to drop off and she just wants her petrol paid.

Thank you all for your comments. It’s definitely given me food for thought.

I accept that I’m unreasonable for not wanting to pay the requested travel costs and will agree to pay them.

The arrangement was very causal to start off with and then having it made more official has been a bit of a headache as it was always supposed to be on the basis that she would be self employed and because I have no choice, I’ve had to become her employer and do all the nanny tax stuff.

The pay increase in December was originally on the basis of her becoming a self employed CM, as she had done some sums considering her higher living expenses etc, putting an amount aside for holidays etc. Then a few weeks later when the changes were supposed to be put in place, she told me that she no longer wanted to be self employed and that I’d have to continue being her employer but that she still wanted the increased rate and there was no compromise to be had.

And again, her message to me today was very formal and was not asking me but telling me that she’ll be charging me 45p per mile from now on.

She’s just rubbed me up the wrong way with her demands I think.

You're being messed about.