AIBU to want my OH to earn more money?

[CafeNervosa]

AIBU?

I’ve been with my partner for 8 years (not married). We have two children, 1 and 4. And a mortgage. He is a great dad (and I mean this - much more present, sensitive) and does at least 50% of the housework, if not more.

But, I’m getting increasingly angry and frustrated at our finances and how id like more money for holidays and to save!

I work 30 hours a week in a professional job that earns a £32k salary. He is self-employed in a creative role, and I’m never exactly sure how much he earns a month/year because “it’s not that simple” and it also fluctuates quite a bit… and he needs to keep money in the business for expenses, tax etc so his clear take home income is not that transparent. And it’s difficult for me to challenge big purchases when he says they’re needed for my business.

His parents have always been terrible at managing money and as such he has huge anxiety about talking about money.

When we bought our house i got him to agree to a joint account, and we agreed to work out how much our bills and reasonable other spending would be, and split it in proportion to our earnings. And keep the rest in our own accounts. I agreed to do this on his worst case scenario month. Basically I paid 2/3 and he paid 1/3.

Then he got frustrated that he had v little disposable income, and I agreed (in a v stressful emotional conversation) to splitting it so that we instead have the same amount of disposable income each left. So I now pay more than 2x what he pays - so I pay £1250 a month, and he pays £450.

This is never really enough to pay for incidental stuff though, like Xmas and birthdays and new shoes for the children, new furniture for the house etc so I normally pay for these out of my own leftover money.

I’m getting increasingly frustrated that:
a) I’ve trained to be in a seemingly well-paid job but can’t really afford luxuries or to save anything for a holiday or the future, because he doesn’t earn enough money. Am I unreasonable that I want him to be a better business person and earn more money, even though he’s very good at what he does?
b) that he won’t be really transparent with me about his financial situation - for example, I paid off his overdraft when I came into some money that I later used for our house deposit, and then we went on a uk holiday and he went substantially back into his overdraft on the basis that I’d said it would be nice to go for lunch and other things, without knowing that would be the outcome, because he can’t talk about it because it stresses him out so much. If I’d known we could have changed to cheaper plans.

Does anyone have any advice about how I can help us be more organised and transparent with our finances so we can be more in control - especially with someone who has an anxious history with money? I’m never quite sure if it’s that we don’t have enough money or if it feels out of my control?

The issue is transparency as you now know! Or in his case lack of transparency.

I am amazed you can live with someone who is not open about his finances!
Frankly him having issues about it is an excuse he is a grown man....

If it was me l would write him an email saying,
I cannot go on with not having complete knowledge and regular calm monthly updates about our respective incomes and outgoings, backed up by seeing your accounting records, statements etc. ( and you seeing mine)
This is not an adult way to behave, we share children and a home, if you do not want to trust me with your finances then that is a massive issue for me and l cannot tolerate it any longer.
I don't intend to argue, and want a calm discussion tonight/tomorrow at x time.

Good luck

I'm not sure how much he earns is the issue, but the secrecy. If you want more money maybe you should earn more too?

He needs to make at least £1,000 a month and I would do all the money management.

Far be it from me to rush to LTB. I also get why it seems a great idea for the competent person to do the money management.

My caution would be around the impact on the dynamic between you. Do you really want to parent him in this way.

It’s clouded by money he needs to put aside for investment in his business.

This is not in any way mysterious. What is his business plan, when does the business expect to break even and then provide a return on that investment. . It sounds very much as if you are subsidising his investment in his 'business'. In the absence of a credible business plan, it really isn't fair that you continue to subsidise.

It is impossible to tell whether he is just not capable of running a business or is gas lighting you and siphoning off money.

What NI is is paying? What pension provision are you both making?

The real point is that you deserve to have a lot more information around his business plans. Mixing bodily fluids with someone who refuses to be open about the long term financial viability of their choice of how to fund themselves (and their children) would not work for me.

In your shoes I would really want to know whether I was paying for the pleasure of his company in my life. Nothing wrong with that if it's what you choose. You can't choose unless you understand the facts.

when we talk about earnings he says that we’re ok.

The famous MN saying "when someone tells you who they are, listen " is very relevant here. He is happy for you to subsidise him and doesn't want to change that status quo.

Quelle surprise.

He's having a laugh and you are being taken for a ride.
Big talk, have an agenda, no flannel, no tears. If not have relationship counselling.
You have the upper hand, use it to improve things, don't be bamboozled

[quote CafeNervosa]@Hrpuffnstuff1 i wanted to respond directly because I like a strong opinion - also to respond not only for me because you’re making broad strokes too.

Firstly, I never said I enjoyed my job.
Secondly, what I call ‘adventures’ are going to the local theatre, buying a kite, eating ice cream in winter, maybe the Eurostar to Paris… they may be still extravagances in your view but I thought it worth clarifying.

Maybe the imminent WW has added to my feeling that I might want to live life while we can.[/quote]
I can only give an opinion on the information given, so any opinions will naturally be full of assumptions.
What are you going to do if he doesn't want to give up his business?
It's sounds to me he's crafted himself a nice niche, professionally and at home.
You be may have a salient point, however making demands may have unintended consequences.

He's half way to being a cocklodger surely ?

I understand. My DH is the same. It’s not that he is purposely vague about money. Rather, he just doesn’t compute things very well. His family is the same. Anything related to money always ends up in huge arguments, with them. So he typically thinks I’m “saying something” when trying to discuss finances / budget. He just loses the plot... Also gets pissed off when I talk through such things with my accountant dad (who helps me with my tax etc).

I run the household expenses. I have all of the savings (mostly mine) in my account. It’s frustrating, going on holiday for example, and not knowing how much he’s got in his pocket. He tends to lurch from one financial disaster to the next... I don’t get involved unless I’m forced to. It’s shite. Now, we have a kid I wish he’d improve, but I can’t see it happening.

@TheRealityCheque

Man earns more than woman:

Man need to pay more to joint finances to ensure both have the same 'personal money' left other or man is financial abusive.

Woman earns more than man:
They should pay the same amount into joint finances and he should haveess personal money. He's her partner, she's not financially responsible for him.

This place is so unbelievably sexist, it's unreal.

Usually in the threads where the woman earning less, she does almost all the housework and all of the childcare, and often pays for 100% of any external childcare costs. In the threads I can remember the husband has more than enough spends to fund expensive hobbies/trips away whereas the wife can't afford to go out anywhere, pay for shampoo etc.. Also in these cases it's the main breadwinner who's not transparent about finances, not the other partner, as in this case.

In this case the main breadwinner also does a lot of the childcare/housework. She's not living a luxury lifestyle while her husband is a pauper. It's perfectly reasonable to have a discussion about finances. That's not being abusive, that's just communication.

He is hiding some expenditure he doesn't want you to see.

@pluvia thank you - some interesting things to consider. I don’t bring home £2100, it’s £1950 ish with deductions. And I have personal bills (mobile phone and a credit card I’m paying off). But you’re right, it does feel like we should be able to manage.

Or rather that the shared pool of money isn’t quite enough and we’re creeping into our personal spending.

I quite like the idea that some people have suggested which is to pool all money together and allocate personal spending separately rather than it being the leftover money.

Generally this thread has been so helpful in clarifying my thoughts and giving me energy to get this sorted.

I spoke to my partner about reviewing our contributions each month to the joint account and having more pots for spending eg. One for fixed bills, one for food, one for holiday savings and he was willing. Talking to everyone here first allowed me to explore my frustrations and let it out a bit so I was also much more constructive and patient in discussion which seemed to work. I’m very grateful!

@CafeNervosa

What a find tricky is that when we talk about earnings he says that we’re ok. And we are. We have a nice house and the children have what they need. I’d just like a bit more money to save and go on adventures with!

Well, you are. Because of you.

If he's not making any proper money to contribute to the family, what he's doing is enjoying a hobby, not running a business.

I'm glad you're feeling better. But you need to grit your teeth and push to find out what's really happening with his business as well.

@Geppili I think he’s embarrassed about the amount of finance agreements he has, so the money that he has committed to. I’m confident that he won’t have defaulted on any though and they’ll be managed. I think he thinks getting credit for things is much more done than I do.

Honestly... I think he's hiding money from you. I'd be fine paying proportionally but only if I knew it truly was fair.

@BowerOfBramble thank you for your support. I’m going to get there step by step, and use all of everyone’s words to remind me of why I’m not being unreasonable to expect more transparency.

Oddly I’m quite excited that I don’t think the issue is amount of money, but rather the organisation of it. Organising it and working with him to do that I feel optimistic I can do!

@Mrsmadevans lol. Anyone playing cocklodger bingo!?

Surely if you go out together or with kids that's a joint expense. You or him seeing your friends separately would be own money. Reading back again it's not clear what is agreed or if it's fair. Different ideas can be accomodated but you need to be clear, have some rules.

@HelloBunny I definitely understand the bit about him thinking when I bring up money there’s a problem. It’s what he’s used to. So he is immediately defensive.

I think the issue is both the amount of money and communication. 450 a month is a pisstake. He could contribute more on a minimum wage job. He works the same number of hours as you. He works them sometimes around childcare but it sounds like you are mostly 50/50 childcare. It's not like he's at home looking after the children whilst you pursue your career. He needs a job which pays more.

@Bellringer yeh I think we need to put more money jointly into the joint account so that resentment about purchases that should be joint doesn’t build up. Or the reverse that’s been suggested; which is to pool everything and allocate personal spending amounts.

I am in a creative career. I earn small amounts of money. I have been a SAHM and am now a trailing spouse so my situation is different and I am able to keep working at what I do, but at this point the money I make is not equivalent to a decent financial contribution to the household, and if I needed to make that contribution right now I would have to go work checkouts or barista or whatever. I wouldn't be able to tell myself that the inadequate money I can (currently) make via my creative work suffices, just because it's the job I want to do. That's not how it works, def not with kids. You build that income up while doing what you need to do to feed and house your family. I would expect my DH to be unimpressed if once DS was at school I had said I was just going to keep doing my thing whatever income it did or didn't bring. (As it turns out I ended up following him across the globe to a country where I can't work so it's quite handy I have my location-independent income at this point, but your DH isn't in that situation!)

Hrpuffnstuff1 how is it materialist to want to have a sodding life. Your post is quite ignorant.

@Aishah231 that’s the first thing to tackle, the £450. I keep thinking… what would you do if you had to rent your own place??

what would you do if you had to rent your own place

Yeah, and I can quite understand him getting defensive and wanting to brew up an emotion storm to distract you from the obvious answer.

When someone tells you who he is .. listen

Are you already starting to treat him like a teenager, rather than a partner? If do, it's because that's how he is acting.

On the other side £450 is making a big difference for us budget wise. It’s the difference between barely scrapping by and having actually SOME money left for personal spending.

Tbh I think you have 3 issues
1- how much is he actually earning and how is he spending ‘his’ money if he gets into overdraft.
2- is it actually acceptable for him to carry on with this job that brings little money but he loves?
3- linked with 2 really. What is your aim re finances? What sort of life do you want? Are you actually aligned there - from what you said, he is happy with the life you have vs you would like more holidays and some safe cash.

I don’t think there is any right or wrong answer there.
But you need to talk.

[quote CafeNervosa]@Aishah231 that’s the first thing to tackle, the £450. I keep thinking… what would you do if you had to rent your own place??[/quote]
Do you ever wonder if you're more like his indulgent mum that his wife? Has he always been like this? What do you get from being involved with a man who is happy to be treated like a teenager and who comes to you to ask for more pocket money, as one earlier poster put it?

Do you feel powerful for indulging him? I've met women who've been married to 'creative' men or men who've puttered away at hopeless businesses for years, who've actually quite liked the fact that they're in charge of household finances.

I can't imagine it's much good for him to be infantilised in this way. You've just written him off with 'he's no good with money'. Perhaps he can learn to be a financially responsible adult. I'm also curious about the apparently unbothered way you talk about his sources of credit. How deep do his debts go? How much has he borrowed to keep this 'business' going? If he's on the mortgage, perhaps you need to be a bit more concerned.