Exceptions for Ukraine refugees

[myear]

I would genuinely be happy if someone can explain to me how IABU so I can feel less upset!

I am pleased for the Ukrainians that the EU is making exceptions for them so that anyone can come in, can get jobs straight away, no need for a visa for 3 years etc, but AIBU to feel bitter about my own treatment as an asylum seeker many many years ago? I can’t help but wonder why these exceptions are made for people fleeing the Ukraine, but not for people who fled my country to survive ethnic cleansing and what the UN found was war crimes against my people.

We had to lie to get a visa to Europe, lie to then get into the country when we were taken away for questioning at the border, apply for asylum 6 times as it kept being rejected, and only got approved on the basis that we had stayed too long to be kicked out, couldn’t work for a long time, and no exceptions were made to reduce bureaucratic hurdles. To be blunt, I question whether exceptions are being made for the Ukrainian refugees because they are white and people from my country are black.

My white DH, who is from the European country that took me in, is upset that the UK is not waiving visa requirements for Ukrainians and only allowing those with family in, rather than anyone seeking refuge. But, he doesn’t really see a problem with how I was treated by his country either, for reasons such as:

1. We fled a civil war whereas Ukraine is being attacked by another country. Countries need to deal with their own problems (but incidentally thinks it was right to intervene in NI / ROI - again white).

1. It’s not his country’s duty to help my country as they didn’t cause the war (but neither did his country cause the Ukraine war yet they are making exceptions for them).

1. Ukraine is geographically closer, although not a direct neighbour (so?)

1. Why am I not upset at the people who caused war in my country (but how is that relevant to the differing treatment I’m now seeing?)

1. Why am I not upset at neighbouring countries, they didn’t help either (again, how is that relevant?)

1. No exceptions were made for Kosovo, Bosnia etc so the Ukraine exceptions are not based on race (can't argue against that!)

I am very grateful that we were able to find safety in Europe and have a great life, but this seems to be upsetting me more than I can rationally explain.

this should have been a safe space to open about your trauma but unfortunately there are too many racists here.

everyday people who walk amongst us, its scary to think the people we interact with daily hold these kind of racists beliefs.

@lemongreentea

this should have been a safe space to open about your trauma but unfortunately there are too many racists here.

A random online forum is categorically not a ‘safe space’ for any trauma. Give over.

you give over

but it is a safe space for racist posters?

once more, you give over.

Your Mum is a Superwoman, OP, for getting her dc through all of that. And YANBU about the racist response to allow in white, European refugees unquestioned, given the stark contrast in how people from other ares of the world are treated by the Home Office.

I too am happy that Ukrainians are being allowed in. But of course they are no more deserving than your family was.

@lemongreentea

but it is a safe space for racist posters?

once more, you give over.

As has always been the way here.

No exceptions were made for Kosovo, Bosnia etc so the Ukraine exceptions are not based on race (can't argue against that!)

I've always thought that it was probably because Kosovo and Bosnia are majority Muslim.

Also OP unless you say what country you’re from specifically nobody can judge your circumstances fairly. Since your OP was indeed asking us to judge.

You were clearly well off (to be able to travel to Europe on ‘holiday’ without being stopped). Even in times of war the well-heeled are able to get out first. Especially from countries that don’t have a huge middle class (I’m not sure what the status of Yi ur country was).

You’re not being U at all to feel what you feel! You’re not a bad person, or mean, to be upset that you weren’t ‘welcomed with open arms’.

However it’s futile to compare your situation without Ukraine when we don’t know what that situation is other than you not being white. In relation to YOUR op and YOUR story.

General discussion on racism, or refugee policy is a separate matter altogether.

@lemongreentea

but it is a safe space for racist posters?

once more, you give over.

Not really, there are plenty of posters calling out racism. If it was a safe space the entire thread would be cheering them on.

But then again the majority of posts are simplistic arguments either way. Even the OP has acknowledged that there are clear reasons why Ukrainians are being ‘welcomed’ that have nothing to do with them being white.

A pp have also pointed out that the visas are ‘temporary’. People are happy to help temporarily.

But refugees from regions with a history of conflict aren’t going to go back are they? That’s the key difference.

but it is a safe space for racist posters?

I'd say yes, as they feel emboldened hiding beyond an anonymous name.

The way I see it is this. Every country has a relationship with other countries round the world, and how these relationships work and their impact upon the home nation, will determine what actions a country takes abroad.
In this case it is the fact that it is Putin doing the invading and killing, not the fact that it's the Ukraine people. It's what he is capable of and how it could effect us. At the end of the day all countries act in their own best interest. We are rightly stepping in and doing all we can, and it's probably right that with Ukraine being a European nation any help given will be more popular, but we shouldn't kid ourselves that if this had'd directly effected us we would be so involved.
I come from a people who suffered one of the first recorded genocides. Even now it isn't recognised by the Uk for fear of annoying another country with which they clearly view as being more useful.
We should do all we can to help the people of Ukraine but I don't think the OP is wrong in coming to this realisation,
just probably that it's not the best time to voice it

the home office hasnt really welcomed ukrainian refugees with open arms and no checks. The scheme is still quite limited and requires checks.

But the difference is much of the population is demanding a better response which I havent seen before.

The reason Ukrainian refugees might stand a better chance of returning to their country than refugees from other regions is because the UK and US haven't spent years and in some instances decades bombing the fuck out of Ukraine. It's very interesting to witness selective memory of world events.

@VladmirsPoutine

The reason Ukrainian refugees might stand a better chance of returning to their country than refugees from other regions is because the UK and US haven't spent years and in some instances decades bombing the fuck out of Ukraine. It's very interesting to witness selective memory of world events.

That’s not quite relevant isn’t it? If your point is that the destabilisation was these major powers’ fault and they should all be given free flow. Then Commonwealth countries whose wealth the U.K. has stolen for generations should also be given free flow. From an individual, ‘how will this affect me perspective’ people in areas with an influx of people can tolerate it for a couple of years. Not for several unless significant investment in housing, infrastructure etc is made.

You can argue about whose fault it is , who should be giving the money but for an individual most stuff is about how it affects THEM. Especially when so many are already struggling to survive.

Furthermore…
I don’t disagree that racism is a let of attitudes. There are just several factors at play rather than ‘they’re the wrong colour’.
‘race’, and ‘nationality’ can be a shorthand for values, culture. It’s a delicate balance.

@blueberryporridge

Because they are white and their way of life looks quite similar to ours?

I think you hit it in one. A commentator even said it on TV the other day, something like people won't accept "people who look like them and live like them" being treated like this. The message being if you look different (brown) and don't live like them (a non european culture) it is a bit of a shame but not our problem.

They showed Nigerian students trying to leave Ukraine and being refused entry to Poland. I can't see why they would be a problem, they wanted to go home so would only be passing through. I hope they got home.

I feel sorry for the Ukrainian people, it is wonderful the help they are being offered by neighbouring countries and even things like lots of phone companies offering free calls to Ukraine and also companies offering free plane and train tickets but there is racism.

[quote CarrieHughes]@Cablefable wrong again, I can guarantee that neighbouring countries would have taken them in. Even Syria itself (using as a recent example) took refugees. The biggest refugee housing countries are Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan.
However space + infrastructure is finite. Of course they were unhappy when nobpdy cared to give them money.
It would be better to fund neighbouring states. Saudi Arabia has room for half a million at least, so do Qatar, UAE?

A PP has stated that Europe’s constantly blamed for not taking refugees while other countries shit on them equally. I somewhat agree.

For countries with a colonial past like Britain, France etc and who are still the cause of wars probably theres some blame.
But countries like Poland, Romania etc. While it’s bad that they’re racist, I can’t blame them for not wanting refugees! They’ve spent most of history being bullied by the rest of Europe. It has nothing to do with them.[/quote]
I'm not sure how much Turkey spends on those refugee facilities. I think they are in receipt of very large amounts of EU cash to establish and run them. Simon Reeve did an interesting bit about it in his programme on Turkey. If member serves me right, the EU are funding them, but it is only the Turkish flag that flies overhead. Thus the refugees are led to believe that Turkey are providing everything.

Also, I think it is a bit of a no man's land for the refugees themselves in Turkey. Turkey are very restrictive and I don't think refugees have or can acquire many rights. Or, gain a right to nationality based on how long they are there. Of course, no doubt it is better to be alive and have your family safe. But there isn't a future in it, and you don't have security to be able to have a full live as a citizen. Isn't Turkey's idea that they can go back when safe to do so, irrespective of how long that is?

I think I'd be looking to move on somewhere I and my family could put down roots and become full citizens. Not just waiting, waiting and waiting as years go by.

@CarrieHughes - exactly- how is AIBU on mn a “safe space to discuss trauma”.

@Bonheurdupasse Just like the white men of the western world who kidnapped, maimed and raped women and children from Africa…in far greater numbers than the Ottoman Empire ever did.

Your attitude to certain races and a certain religion is shining through in your posts.

@myear

The truth was that we were being bombed out of our houses because we were a different race / religion / language. The dominant race didn't want us there. Anyone who protested in a peaceful way risked being taken away by the government and being killed.

But the country that we sought refuge in felt that genocide and war crimes were not a good enough reason to take us in.

And in all this, people are defending the system and saying it was us that were wrong to lie? How can we defend a system that will send a mother and her children to destruction? Clearly the EU has seen that its not right so have changed the rules for Ukraine, but why do people think the rules were fair for me? Can you imagine the outrage we would see if we did this to Ukraine?

This is the first time I have ever spoken about my experiences. No one other than DH knows I was an asylum seeker. My mother always told me never to tell anyone because people won't understand, people will blame me. There have been some lovely posts here which have made me feel more positive, but some of the posts here have also made me realise why my mother said what she did.

I’m from a Middle Eastern background myself, and I understand your trauma completely.

Unfortunately, many people in the UK don’t want to admit their racist viewpoint so will often be in denial, and turn you in the problem, as have others on this thread.

Well done for speaking out and highlighting the double standards that many have.

Russian imperialism is not better than American. But I am not surprised it comes from the person clearly fascinated by Putin (what a funny name, what a pun...)
Russia has long history of comiting genocides, displacing people and eradicating cultures.
Bosnia, mentioned here few times, being one of the nations affected by Russian imperialism.

@myear - you say the rules were not fair for you but we don’t know why your claim wasn’t accepted, can you tell us? All I can see on this post is an attack on Ukrainians who are going through an awful time. We do of course have to be aware that Putin works via cyber space too.

It is not racism to help Ukrainians in need. I have worked with asylum seekers in the past and much as I might like many of them, their claims are not universally well founded.

Unfortunately the most likely reason your claim was turned down 6 times is because you were not eligible. The system does get it wrong sometimes but not as often as claims are refused for being genuinely ineligible.

@Cailleach1 and therein lies the rub.
If I was being bombed out of my country I'd want to be safe. That's the first thing.
Someone who has the luxury of being choosy aren't fleeing for their lives, are they?

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@myear - you say the rules were not fair for you but we don’t know why your claim wasn’t accepted, can you tell us? All I can see on this post is an attack on Ukrainians who are going through an awful time. We do of course have to be aware that Putin works via cyber space too.

It is not racism to help Ukrainians in need. I have worked with asylum seekers in the past and much as I might like many of them, their claims are not universally well founded.

Unfortunately the most likely reason your claim was turned down 6 times is because you were not eligible. The system does get it wrong sometimes but not as often as claims are refused for being genuinely ineligible.[/quote]
At no point have I ever attacked Ukrainians, I really take offence at that.

Unfortunately the most likely reason your claim was turned down 6 times is because you were not eligible. The system does get it wrong sometimes but not as often as claims are refused for being genuinely ineligible.

This sums up the attitude of the majority of people in the UK. OP the system is not faulty, it's working as it's been designed - in other words to be cruel, inhumane and unjust. People who haven't been through your experience won't ever be able to understand it. MN for all it's wonders is not the type of place to seek empathy for these types of experiences. When some of my elder relatives tell me about their plight getting to /living in the UK I'm frankly horrified and I know I do not have the stones to have dealt with even a quarter of what they went through and I'm not from a war torn place.