Exceptions for Ukraine refugees

[myear]

I would genuinely be happy if someone can explain to me how IABU so I can feel less upset!

I am pleased for the Ukrainians that the EU is making exceptions for them so that anyone can come in, can get jobs straight away, no need for a visa for 3 years etc, but AIBU to feel bitter about my own treatment as an asylum seeker many many years ago? I can’t help but wonder why these exceptions are made for people fleeing the Ukraine, but not for people who fled my country to survive ethnic cleansing and what the UN found was war crimes against my people.

We had to lie to get a visa to Europe, lie to then get into the country when we were taken away for questioning at the border, apply for asylum 6 times as it kept being rejected, and only got approved on the basis that we had stayed too long to be kicked out, couldn’t work for a long time, and no exceptions were made to reduce bureaucratic hurdles. To be blunt, I question whether exceptions are being made for the Ukrainian refugees because they are white and people from my country are black.

My white DH, who is from the European country that took me in, is upset that the UK is not waiving visa requirements for Ukrainians and only allowing those with family in, rather than anyone seeking refuge. But, he doesn’t really see a problem with how I was treated by his country either, for reasons such as:

1. We fled a civil war whereas Ukraine is being attacked by another country. Countries need to deal with their own problems (but incidentally thinks it was right to intervene in NI / ROI - again white).

1. It’s not his country’s duty to help my country as they didn’t cause the war (but neither did his country cause the Ukraine war yet they are making exceptions for them).

1. Ukraine is geographically closer, although not a direct neighbour (so?)

1. Why am I not upset at the people who caused war in my country (but how is that relevant to the differing treatment I’m now seeing?)

1. Why am I not upset at neighbouring countries, they didn’t help either (again, how is that relevant?)

1. No exceptions were made for Kosovo, Bosnia etc so the Ukraine exceptions are not based on race (can't argue against that!)

I am very grateful that we were able to find safety in Europe and have a great life, but this seems to be upsetting me more than I can rationally explain.

I think it's because they are white and countries like the UK are more scared of Russia than the people that you fled from because they are closer and have nuclear weapons.

Not helping the Ukrainians risks creating extremists and extremists living in Europe are a scarier prospect than ones living in neighbouring countries to places like Syria and Afghanistan. (I know that some extremists are home grown )

The countries between the EU and Russia formed a convenient geographical buffer until now.

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@myear - you say the rules were not fair for you but we don’t know why your claim wasn’t accepted, can you tell us? All I can see on this post is an attack on Ukrainians who are going through an awful time. We do of course have to be aware that Putin works via cyber space too.

It is not racism to help Ukrainians in need. I have worked with asylum seekers in the past and much as I might like many of them, their claims are not universally well founded.

Unfortunately the most likely reason your claim was turned down 6 times is because you were not eligible. The system does get it wrong sometimes but not as often as claims are refused for being genuinely ineligible.[/quote]
Of course it isn't racism to help Ukrainians, the OP never said it was. Having open arms for white refugees and a closed door for brown refugees is racist.

I think that if something happened in Afghanistan tomorrow that the rules would not be bent for refugees from there. I think that people were sympathetic after the US withdrawal but they wouldn't be so open minded again.

I think that Ukrainian refugees will experience sympathy for now but it will quickly turn into resentment and they will experience the racism that Eastern Europeans experience normally.

@ancientgran - there isn’t a closed door for “brown refugees” (as you call them) though is there. Nor @VladmirsPoutine do I see any evidence of the asylum system being “inhumane or unjust”. It has its problems yes, mainly that it takes far too long to resolve claims. But not everyone who applies is eligible. I can certainly tell you that from working in the system in the past. Having an application turned down 6 times indicates that likely the application was not well founded (although as I said we don’t know for sure).

Some of my family were refugees. I understand how difficult it is. But that doesn’t change the fact that not everyone who applies for refugee status is eligible (same as everyone who applies for anything).

Clearly the EU has seen that its not right so have changed the rules for Ukraine, but why do people think the rules were fair for me?

What about the tiny fact that most Ukrainian refugees go to Poland / Slovakia as it's really the only first safe country available. Poland and Slovakia are member of the EU ( call it a club).
Now the members of this club get together to help their other members out...
The neighbours of your home country obviously didn't belong to any club that would help with refugees. That's very unfortunate for you and your family.
There isn't such a thing as fairness in the real world.

As an aside I remember years ago hearing about psychological studies with people around the world asking who's life you would save. I think I'm remembering correctly.
People were given the option, they could save 100 of their neighbours, all people they didn't know, or they could save 101 people in some far off land, again, people they didn't know. So for example they would ask people people from the UK, to choose between saving say 100 Dutch people or 101 Vietnamese people. People across the world all chose to save their neighbours for some reason even though the most logical choice would be to do the most good and save more people. I'll try to find the study. Also, I don't know how the responses could be dressed up as anything other than racism, people all over the world responded the same way though.

@VladmirsPoutine

The reason Ukrainian refugees might stand a better chance of returning to their country than refugees from other regions is because the UK and US haven't spent years and in some instances decades bombing the fuck out of Ukraine. It's very interesting to witness selective memory of world events.

That's got nothing to do with many countries in the EU though and the EU is what the OP is slating. The UK also spent years fucking up my EU country, what is your point? You want us to take in refugees to pay for the sins of the UK? That's fucked up.

@Kendodd

As an aside I remember years ago hearing about psychological studies with people around the world asking who's life you would save. I think I'm remembering correctly. People were given the option, they could save 100 of their neighbours, all people they didn't know, or they could save 101 people in some far off land, again, people they didn't know. So for example they would ask people people from the UK, to choose between saving say 100 Dutch people or 101 Vietnamese people. People across the world all chose to save their neighbours for some reason even though the most logical choice would be to do the most good and save more people. I'll try to find the study. Also, I don't know how the responses could be dressed up as anything other than racism, people all over the world responded the same way though.

That stylised study is simply not applicable here. Neither does it explain overt racism that has been documented. And in any case, some of the countries that refugees come from are closer to the UK than Ukraine.

Why2why
Thinking about it in a wider context it seems quite accurate, in that, almost all the worlds refugees are accommodated by their neighbours. I believe we actually take very few in Europe and even less in the UK (but scream and shout lies about how generous we are inbetween cries of 'they're not coming here')

And in any case, some of the countries that refugees come from are closer to the UK than Ukraine.

Also, we, the UK are making a massive great fuss about taking in Ukrainians and erecting as many barriers as possible (as always) its Ukraines neighbours who are taking them in.

@BobLep0nge

No exceptions were made for Kosovo, Bosnia etc so the Ukraine exceptions are not based on race (can't argue against that!)

I've always thought that it was probably because Kosovo and Bosnia are majority Muslim.

I had a look at the figures for this. According to Croatia Today the UK took around 8000 refugees from the Bosnian war. Ireland took 20 (sic).

Germany took around 300,000, Sweden around 77,000.

@Kendodd

Why2why Thinking about it in a wider context it seems quite accurate, in that, almost all the worlds refugees are accommodated by their neighbours. I believe we actually take very few in Europe and even less in the UK (but scream and shout lies about how generous we are inbetween cries of 'they're not coming here')

What is your point exactly? I’m lost. Are you saying that the UK treatment of refugees from outside of Europe (both in the media and institutionally) is fair when compared to how it treats and discuss refugees from Ukraine? Are you saying that racism isn’t playing a part? Are you saying that everything can be explained by proximity?

It’s not the numbers that matter here. It’s how whatever number that is allowed in is treated and how easy or difficult it is for that number to gain access.

Tbf Ukraine has had plenty of bombing over the last century from a variety of different parties. The people there have not had an easy time of it

@Wolfie12 - can you explain what you mean by a Ukraine being a “fascist and racist state”? Where did you get that information?

@Wolfie12

The hand-wringing in this country for white Europeans is interesting. Where is the same moral outrage for those who are still suffering in Afghanistan and Syria? You know the people who were royally fucked over by this country and the West? Ukraine is and will continue to be a fascist and racist state but people are conveniently forgetting that.

I have more sympathy for them because they are fighting for their country.

The Afghan army disintegrated and the Taliban waltzed right in. Ukraine is fighting back, and I respect then for it.

They are fighting back with massive Western help with ammunition and other resources. On the other hand, the West goes into these other “developing “ countries, abuse and pillage and cause civil war. Then they pack up and leave.

Let’s not open up that can of worms about fighting back against a potential coloniser.

@Why2why

They are fighting back with massive Western help with ammunition and other resources. On the other hand, the West goes into these other “developing “ countries, abuse and pillage and cause civil war. Then they pack up and leave.

Let’s not open up that can of worms about fighting back against a potential coloniser.

Exactly this.

Why did you bring Irish people into this? Irish people have done lots to help predominantly black and asian countries, so you failed when you brought us up. Just say you hate Irish people and go. You'll be in good company here because Mumsnet proved a few weeks ago how anti-Irish it is.

Ukraine was colonised by Russia. They are fighting back.

@Thebestwaytoscareatory

You forget the french and napoleon way before 70 years ago

And also they have nuclear weapons.

That is the only reason west have held back IMO and for good reason!

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Ukraine was colonised by Russia. They are fighting back.

The others are not fighting back? What role has the West played in not only abusing and debilitating them, but then creating wars and conflicts that the innocent people of these are ill-equipped to fight back. To add insult to injury, the West often give arms to groups that further oppress innocent people. As long as the West can get its oil, diamonds and other goodies, it cares not about the lives of people in developing countries and makes sure that they are never in a strong position to fight against despot. When they do, we see how they are crushed and no one comes to their aid as we see in the case of Ukraine. Remember when the people fought back in many Arabic countries not too long ago? They fought and received no such warm words and admiration.

The west is not responsible for every war everywhere @Why2why and you are being very partial of your recollection of the Arab spring.

Some people already mentioned the practical and legal reasons why EU (not UK) has decided on different approach for Ukrainians vs other refugees. Simply put - most Ukrainians are fleeing to Poland (as this is their neighbouring country), which is a part of EU. Poland itself doesn't have resources to deal with additional few million people, although they do what they can to help them temporarily. As Poland is a part of bloc of countries that generally help each other in situations like that, it is understandable that they dealt with it together. It's the same way EU has managed refugee sitaution in Greece - by relocating them to different countries within EU. I know for some posters it's hard to understand that not everything is about the race, but that's not the situation here.
On UK note- they don't give a shit about any refugees - black or white (which is funny considering they colonised half of the world so should take responsibility for them now). They are pressured to accept few hundred thousand on strict conditions, which is a drop in the ocean.

They fought and received no such warm words and admiration.

I would imagine you had warm words and admiration for them. You cannot dictate who I have wam words and respect for.