Exceptions for Ukraine refugees

[myear]

I would genuinely be happy if someone can explain to me how IABU so I can feel less upset!

I am pleased for the Ukrainians that the EU is making exceptions for them so that anyone can come in, can get jobs straight away, no need for a visa for 3 years etc, but AIBU to feel bitter about my own treatment as an asylum seeker many many years ago? I can’t help but wonder why these exceptions are made for people fleeing the Ukraine, but not for people who fled my country to survive ethnic cleansing and what the UN found was war crimes against my people.

We had to lie to get a visa to Europe, lie to then get into the country when we were taken away for questioning at the border, apply for asylum 6 times as it kept being rejected, and only got approved on the basis that we had stayed too long to be kicked out, couldn’t work for a long time, and no exceptions were made to reduce bureaucratic hurdles. To be blunt, I question whether exceptions are being made for the Ukrainian refugees because they are white and people from my country are black.

My white DH, who is from the European country that took me in, is upset that the UK is not waiving visa requirements for Ukrainians and only allowing those with family in, rather than anyone seeking refuge. But, he doesn’t really see a problem with how I was treated by his country either, for reasons such as:

1. We fled a civil war whereas Ukraine is being attacked by another country. Countries need to deal with their own problems (but incidentally thinks it was right to intervene in NI / ROI - again white).

1. It’s not his country’s duty to help my country as they didn’t cause the war (but neither did his country cause the Ukraine war yet they are making exceptions for them).

1. Ukraine is geographically closer, although not a direct neighbour (so?)

1. Why am I not upset at the people who caused war in my country (but how is that relevant to the differing treatment I’m now seeing?)

1. Why am I not upset at neighbouring countries, they didn’t help either (again, how is that relevant?)

1. No exceptions were made for Kosovo, Bosnia etc so the Ukraine exceptions are not based on race (can't argue against that!)

I am very grateful that we were able to find safety in Europe and have a great life, but this seems to be upsetting me more than I can rationally explain.

Do people like this look at news items depicting children with war injuries or who are displaced and separated from loved ones, and think "yep, they have blue eyes, they'll be fine".

A further layer of irony being that rather many Syrians including Kurdish people are fair with blue eyes. I know this as part of my family are from that part of the world. Despite blue eyes and fair skin, we have experienced a life time of racism and xenophobia in Europe. My one Ukrainian friend has a darker complexion and looks mediterranean. So bloody what? Can we please stop referring to the 'whiteness' of Ukrainian refuges, which is unkind, racist and unhelpful.

Firstly, yabu regarding your application process. Due process was followed. No country should be obligated to take you in because your country has an issue. This shouldn't be the expectations imo. If countries choose to, then yes they get to cherry pick whom

I hope you never find yourself needing sanctuary.

While we obviously don’t know the details of your asylum claim, it would seem that the judicial system in the country you applied in clearly did not think you qualified as a refugee (hence refused your claim 6 times). You say you were only were approved because you had been there so long. The asylum system is a mess but equally not everyone who makes a claim for asylum is eligible.

@myear

I would genuinely be happy if someone can explain to me how IABU so I can feel less upset!

I am pleased for the Ukrainians that the EU is making exceptions for them so that anyone can come in, can get jobs straight away, no need for a visa for 3 years etc, but AIBU to feel bitter about my own treatment as an asylum seeker many many years ago? I can’t help but wonder why these exceptions are made for people fleeing the Ukraine, but not for people who fled my country to survive ethnic cleansing and what the UN found was war crimes against my people.

We had to lie to get a visa to Europe, lie to then get into the country when we were taken away for questioning at the border, apply for asylum 6 times as it kept being rejected, and only got approved on the basis that we had stayed too long to be kicked out, couldn’t work for a long time, and no exceptions were made to reduce bureaucratic hurdles. To be blunt, I question whether exceptions are being made for the Ukrainian refugees because they are white and people from my country are black.

My white DH, who is from the European country that took me in, is upset that the UK is not waiving visa requirements for Ukrainians and only allowing those with family in, rather than anyone seeking refuge. But, he doesn’t really see a problem with how I was treated by his country either, for reasons such as:

1. We fled a civil war whereas Ukraine is being attacked by another country. Countries need to deal with their own problems (but incidentally thinks it was right to intervene in NI / ROI - again white).

1. It’s not his country’s duty to help my country as they didn’t cause the war (but neither did his country cause the Ukraine war yet they are making exceptions for them).

1. Ukraine is geographically closer, although not a direct neighbour (so?)

1. Why am I not upset at the people who caused war in my country (but how is that relevant to the differing treatment I’m now seeing?)

1. Why am I not upset at neighbouring countries, they didn’t help either (again, how is that relevant?)

1. No exceptions were made for Kosovo, Bosnia etc so the Ukraine exceptions are not based on race (can't argue against that!)

I am very grateful that we were able to find safety in Europe and have a great life, but this seems to be upsetting me more than I can rationally explain.

There has been a sudden campaign online to equate support for Ukrainians with racism. This looks like Russian propaganda activity to me -designed at stopping people from speaking out in support. Russia does this a lot and it's usually very effective.

What you went through was horrific OP and makes my blood boil. It is unrelated to what is happening in the Ukraine. Right now children and families are being bombed, and murdered in the Ukraine. It is morally repugnant of any of us to do ANYTHING at this moment other than to voice and show humane support and empathy for our counterparts there. It is not about any of us right now, it is about the Ukraine and mums just like us who are living in abject terror that their little kids might not be alive by this time tomorrow. Its not about any of us right now.

no it's not. always the right time to discuss racism and in many shapes and forms

With respect, no it isn't. I do a lot work in the field and what I hate is that while I care about the ugly dirty reality of racism, and feel we all have a direct responsibility to fight it, anyone who weaponizes it to kick people when their country is being bombed apart at this EXACT moment is not an advocate of anything.

There is a time and a place. That time and place is not a chat on a mums forum while children and their mothers and fathers are being blown apart as we speak.

@FlaFlyFlo

Do people like this look at news items depicting children with war injuries or who are displaced and separated from loved ones, and think "yep, they have blue eyes, they'll be fine".

A further layer of irony being that rather many Syrians including Kurdish people are fair with blue eyes. I know this as part of my family are from that part of the world. Despite blue eyes and fair skin, we have experienced a life time of racism and xenophobia in Europe. My one Ukrainian friend has a darker complexion and looks mediterranean. So bloody what? Can we please stop referring to the 'whiteness' of Ukrainian refuges, which is unkind, racist and unhelpful.

And there is a reason for that. The Ottoman Empire. Which plundered Eastern Europe and took women and children as sex slaves to bring back to the other Ottoman Empire territory. For hundreds and hundreds of years. Those enslaved raped women gave birth to their owners children and imparted their physical features which persist to today.

with respect, we can talk about many different subjects at the SAME time.

You don't get to shut down the OPs experiences of fleeing from war or the trauma it has triggered for her. That s a tactic used by racists to shut down other peoples points of view.

@Knittingchamp

With respect, no it isn't. I do a lot work in the field and what I hate is that while I care about the ugly dirty reality of racism, and feel we all have a direct responsibility to fight it, anyone who weaponizes it to kick people when their country is being bombed apart at this EXACT moment is not an advocate of anything.

There is a time and a place. That time and place is not a chat on a mums forum while children and their mothers and fathers are being blown apart as we speak.

How is racism being weaponised? Do you mean you are outraged that ethnic minorities here have the audacity to highlight that on top of the horrors of Putin’s war that they have to deal with, they still have to combat racism? They have the audacity to show the double standards with how they are regarded as refugees and White Ukrainians are not?

How dare they ask for equal treatment at this time? You want them to shut up and if they don’t, they are the demons. Not even the racists, but it’s they who are the problem?

*That on top of the horrors of Putin’s war that people who look like them …

Because we are better now.

Really? Wait for the next disaster that leads to refugees and see what happens shall we?

They have the audacity to show the double standards with how they are regarded as refugees and White Ukrainians are not?
How dare they ask for equal treatment at this time? You want them to shut up and if they don’t, they are the demons. Not even the racists, but it’s they who are the problem?
This
Some disgusting posts on here.

While we obviously don’t know the details of your asylum claim, it would seem that the judicial system in the country you applied in clearly did not think you qualified as a refugee (hence refused your claim 6 times). You say you were only were approved because you had been there so long. The asylum system is a mess but equally not everyone who makes a claim for asylum is eligible.

This is the important bit really. That is why it took so long because you didn't meet the criteria. If you were actually eligible for asylum your mother would have been able to work sooner and the whole process would have taken less time. You were denied asylum 7 times(I presume once, then 6 appeals) despite lying to make your situation sound worse than it was. I'm not really sure you should be complaining about a system that allowed you to remain in your country of choice without qualifying for asylum and without a valid visa, it sounds like a win to me?

The difference is that we pretty much expect that if the conflict in Ukraine is resolved, the massive amount of refugees going into the UK or EU countries will go back, and will not settle in their host countries, bar a small percentage.
For a lot of other refugees coming from other conflicts or part of the world, the inverse is expected. This is not very sustainable, in term of long-term schooling, education, culture and lodgings.
Also, yes, the women and children aspect is very important. Realistically speaking, they are less likely to pose a security risk than group of young men deprived of their usual outlets...

As I am not expecting this war to be resolved anytime soon, and I think we are preparing for a long protracted submerged horror after a relatively short one; I don't think Ukranian refugees will be going back. And then, there will be racist onslaught on them, without a doubt [taking our jobs, not happy with their place, too many of them, etc]

@microbius

As I am not expecting this war to be resolved anytime soon, and I think we are preparing for a long protracted submerged horror after a relatively short one; I don't think Ukranian refugees will be going back. And then, there will be racist onslaught on them, without a doubt [taking our jobs, not happy with their place, too many of them, etc]

I've literally just seen this on facebook under an article about how the EU are considering temp residency for those fleeing the conflict. People on the streets, not enough houses already, cheap labour etc. Obviously these people didn't get the memo that Ukranians are white.

After reading your post I knew people would pick up on you having to lie as though that's the most egregious part of the whole saga you went through.

@Calmitdownkermit

I can't believe the amount of racism that's been allowed to stand here on this thread.

The thing is they don't think they are being racist. These are attitudes people hold. These aren't raging lunatics in a basement somewhere mainlining alt-right youtube content. These are everyday people.

OP, what you and your family went through was horrible. It's unsurprising that what is going on in the world right now is bringing back a lot of dark feelings - I mean, how does anyone ever really completely deal with something like that? You just get better at suppressing the memories.

I don't think it would have made a difference to your upset if the Ukrainians had been treated better or worse than how they are being treated right now. It would have triggered the same strong reaction in you - if you weren't upset at them being treated better than you, you'd feel upset about them being treated worse.

Be kind to yourself. You might be safe right now, but once upon a time, you weren't, and that's difficult to forget. If it comes out in negative feelings you're not proud of, that's just the way you are coping - feel your feelings, acknowledge them, and then try to rationalise why they're not healthy.

The truth was that we were being bombed out of our houses because we were a different race / religion / language. The dominant race didn't want us there. Anyone who protested in a peaceful way risked being taken away by the government and being killed.

But the country that we sought refuge in felt that genocide and war crimes were not a good enough reason to take us in.

And in all this, people are defending the system and saying it was us that were wrong to lie? How can we defend a system that will send a mother and her children to destruction? Clearly the EU has seen that its not right so have changed the rules for Ukraine, but why do people think the rules were fair for me? Can you imagine the outrage we would see if we did this to Ukraine?

This is the first time I have ever spoken about my experiences. No one other than DH knows I was an asylum seeker. My mother always told me never to tell anyone because people won't understand, people will blame me. There have been some lovely posts here which have made me feel more positive, but some of the posts here have also made me realise why my mother said what she did.

@TYbakedpotato

OP, what you and your family went through was horrible. It's unsurprising that what is going on in the world right now is bringing back a lot of dark feelings - I mean, how does anyone ever really completely deal with something like that? You just get better at suppressing the memories.

I don't think it would have made a difference to your upset if the Ukrainians had been treated better or worse than how they are being treated right now. It would have triggered the same strong reaction in you - if you weren't upset at them being treated better than you, you'd feel upset about them being treated worse.

Be kind to yourself. You might be safe right now, but once upon a time, you weren't, and that's difficult to forget. If it comes out in negative feelings you're not proud of, that's just the way you are coping - feel your feelings, acknowledge them, and then try to rationalise why they're not healthy.

Thank you, that's very kind

I would have been enraged if we hadn't welcomed Ukrainians (and feel a bit upset that the UK government isn't removing bureaucratic hurdles in the same way as the EU) and at the same time feel really ashamed of how I'm feeling about what feels like inequality in treatment.

I think it’s very understandable the current situation will bring up unwelcome memories after all you have been through. How awful you have grown up feeling (understandably sadly) that you have to hide such a key part of who you are.

Be kind to yourself.

@myear

The truth was that we were being bombed out of our houses because we were a different race / religion / language. The dominant race didn't want us there. Anyone who protested in a peaceful way risked being taken away by the government and being killed.

But the country that we sought refuge in felt that genocide and war crimes were not a good enough reason to take us in.

And in all this, people are defending the system and saying it was us that were wrong to lie? How can we defend a system that will send a mother and her children to destruction? Clearly the EU has seen that its not right so have changed the rules for Ukraine, but why do people think the rules were fair for me? Can you imagine the outrage we would see if we did this to Ukraine?

This is the first time I have ever spoken about my experiences. No one other than DH knows I was an asylum seeker. My mother always told me never to tell anyone because people won't understand, people will blame me. There have been some lovely posts here which have made me feel more positive, but some of the posts here have also made me realise why my mother said what she did.

And in that entire continent there wasn't a single other country that would have taken you in?

Obviously, not questioning why Europe would seem like a better option!

And ChoiceMummy proves the point of the OP's brave Mum, not to tell anyone about her asylum seeker past as no one will understand.