Somebody explain why Russians believe Ukraine is part or Russia....

[jobhunter7]

I know it used to be part of the Russian Empire. But do they believe the same about Poland or Finland which were too? And what other former parts of the USSR do they believe to be still basically Russia.

Chill out :)

@downnative
You sound obsessive and a bit unhinged. Go and have a lie-down. Then maybe start your own thread. This thread was about Ukraine.

@jobhunter7

I know it used to be part of the Russian Empire. But do they believe the same about Poland or Finland which were too? And what other former parts of the USSR do they believe to be still basically Russia.

If we look at some statistics about Ukraine, we can arrive at an answer.

Between 43-46% of people in Ukraine speak Russian. Crucially, about the same proportion of people speak Ukrainian.

Both languages evolved from a common ancestor language - Old East Slavic. Both use the Cyrillic script and are the only Slavic languages that do.

Despite this, they are NOT mutually intelligible languages. This is because the two languages evolved differently for 600 years and had other influences. For example, Ukrainian has a lot of Polish influences.

The peoples of Ukraine and Russia have a shared history, including ancestry. Similarly, the Spanish and Portuguese have a shared history in many ways.

The main reason Russia and Ukraine don't share the same outlook is basically Nationalist politics.

Russian nationalism views Ukraine and Crimea as part of Russia. The Soviet flag seen on a Russian tank recently demonstrates a desire for reforming the Soviet Union.

Ukrainian nationalism went a different route and desired independence as well as closer ties to Europe.

Other European countries have similarities in outlook like above. Spain once had the same view of Portugal as Russia does of Ukraine, but hasn't for a long time.

More relevant to the British Isles, Irish Nationalists and Republicans view Northern Ireland as not being a real country and theirs - despite the 1999 referendum vote in the ROI. Northern Irish Unionists and Loyalists wished for closer ties to the British and to be separate from the ROI - Similar to the Ukrainian sentiment.

More importantly, Russia and Ukraine do not have a Good Friday Agreement of their own. That's where the UK, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland are more fortunate.

These are the main reasons why some countries view others as part of their own whilst other countries do not.

It's Nationalist politics. Often dressed up as something else. In Putin's case, NATO expansion.

Carrying on the theme on unhinged, but in relation to Ukraine, I found it informative to read read: sputniknews.com/

[quote Thereisnolight]@downnative
You sound obsessive and a bit unhinged. Go and have a lie-down. Then maybe start your own thread. This thread was about Ukraine.[/quote]
It wasn't I who brought in the UK, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland comparison in. Your ire should be with previous posters.

The hypothesis itself is ludicrous anyway.

This from Oliver Stone is interesting although it is quite long. m.youtube.com/watch?v=kGQfiImnZHE&feature=youtu.be

Both languages evolved from a common ancestor language - Old East Slavic. Both use the Cyrillic script and are the only Slavic languages that do

Belarusian, Bulgarian, Macedonian and Serbian are all Slavic languages which use the Cyrillic script

@RichardMarxisinnocent

Both languages evolved from a common ancestor language - Old East Slavic. Both use the Cyrillic script and are the only Slavic languages that do

Belarusian, Bulgarian, Macedonian and Serbian are all Slavic languages which use the Cyrillic script

I stand corrected and I actually misread some information on the two. I see that more than 50 languages use Cyrillic alphabet.

Ukrainian is closer to Polish and Belarusian than Russian.

Interestingly, Russian is closer to Belarusian than Ukrainian as well. Add in Bulgarian, Serbian and Macedonian.

Nationalism is the root of the differences.

"Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception. Every nationalist is capable of the most flagrant dishonesty..." - Orwell

Washington Post has an excellent analysis, Google Putin and Imperialism

As far as the hypothetical this thread is trying to provide, the most obvious one is a pretty glaring omission.

What if Germany rebuilt its army, planned and invaded German speaking areas just outside its borders as a pretext for occupation?

This hypothetical is much, much closer to the Russian invasion of Ukraine today. Simply put, the attempted hypothetical of the UK, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland situation is absolutely ludicrous. That offers no semblance of understanding of the current crisis whatsoever.

A what if involving Germany makes more sense and many of us are, I presume familiar with Germany's Nazi period so could understand the current Ukrainian situation through that lens much better.

Now, that would more than enable people to understand the situation in Ukraine today better.

I found the Washington Post here: www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/03/02/long-history-russian-imperialism-shaping-putins-war/

I wonder what is Putin's longer term imperialist play? Install a puppet government? Or more move in more Russian settlers as they done in other regions in the past?

The Nazi German approach would have been to move in settlers, as we did in North America, Australia, Ireland, etc The American approach these days seems to be to have a compliant regime, and local army bases.

Somebody explain why British people think Northern Ireland is part of the UK ;)

Northern Ireland is internationally recognised as part of the U.K., hence all the Brexit negotiations about trade.

There is provision in statute for NI to leave the U.K. in the event of a majority vote.

Most English people are barely aware that the U.K. shares a land border with the EU and don’t have strong opinions on the subject,

@Ihopeyoulikemymuff

Somebody explain why British people think Northern Ireland is part of the UK ;)

Eh?

Northern Ireland IS literally and very much officially part of the UK!

The Republic of Ireland gave up ALL territorial claims over Northern Ireland in 1999 and formally recognised we are separate from them.

This really isn't difficult to understand. The GFA is actually very explicit that Northern Ireland is part of the UK, in fact.

@merrymouse

Northern Ireland is internationally recognised as part of the U.K., hence all the Brexit negotiations about trade.

There is provision in statute for NI to leave the U.K. in the event of a majority vote.

Most English people are barely aware that the U.K. shares a land border with the EU and don’t have strong opinions on the subject,

The Ashcroft poll makes it clear most English people ARE aware the UK shares a land border with the EU.

It also shows more English people want Northern Ireland and Scotland to remain in the UK in similar levels. A significantly smaller proportion of them would prefer they leave. More tellingly, only a tiny minority would be happy if the UK broke up.

Here's a useful reminder of what makes up the UK