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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Somebody explain why Russians believe Ukraine is part or Russia....

192 replies

jobhunter7 · 02/03/2022 20:58

I know it used to be part of the Russian Empire. But do they believe the same about Poland or Finland which were too? And what other former parts of the USSR do they believe to be still basically Russia.

OP posts:
Cheeserton · 03/03/2022 16:03

"Putin wants to restore the USSR, hence Ukraine and Chechnya."

What the hell did I just read? Chechnya is part of the Russian Federation. Nothing to do with the USSR.

The title of this thread is stupid. 'Russians' definitely don't think Ukraine is part of Russia. Ludicrous, cringeworthy oversimplification.

debwong · 03/03/2022 16:04

I think the England/Ireland analogy can be helpful for people who don't know anything about the other situation. Two neighbouring peoples, one more powerful than the other, who have a difficult and violent history together but nevertheless share a lot of family ties today.

merrymouse · 03/03/2022 16:31

The title of this thread is stupid. 'Russians' definitely don't think Ukraine is part of Russia. Ludicrous, cringeworthy oversimplification.

Not given the circumstances, which are that Russia is seeking to occupy Ukraine.

If this has created misunderstandings, blame Putin.

HeartOfClass · 03/03/2022 16:48

I agree on the @merrymouse comment. It is not all Russians, but I do wonder how many support the war/invasion? The few Russian people I know here in UK (at work, tech area) are dismayed but it.

I wonder when our soldiers were being sent abroad to invade, conquer, murder, rape, etc. how much popular support there was for it? I'd imagine the idea and concept of our empire was very popular across all classes?

Again, I've no idea, but the popular support for our invasion of Iraq must have been very small. Most I know were totally against it, but the government/leaders could pus ahead with it regardless. Maybe that's the same in Russia today?

YouSayYesISayNo · 03/03/2022 17:48

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blahblahbiscuits · 03/03/2022 18:22

@YouSayYesISayNo I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd imagine the example you used and the wording touched a nerve because England has already invaded Ireland. Ireland had to fight for independence, and many believe they didn't get the full country back and the job was half finished hence those in both the republic and NI calling for a united Ireland. For many living in the North of Ireland, this led to life changing consequences in that they no longer lived in Ireland, instead they lived in Northern Ireland. The effects of 'The Troubles' that ensued because of this are still being felt in every day life. Just yesterday I sent my condolences to a friend whose father was shot 30 years ago, the day after her 3rd birthday, as he innocently walked down the road, he was a victim of the troubles. There are so so many of them.

This is why, using the example that you did may have caused some upset. I understand that you meant it in a light, non confrontational manner, and wanted to highlight how ridiculous it would be if it was to happen. But for many it doesn't sound all that ridiculous at all actually.

Lincslady53 · 03/03/2022 18:33

This is interesting.

Lincslady53 · 03/03/2022 18:39

The video explains that since the break up of the USSR, Russia have been paying Ukraine for transporting gas across Ukraine to Europe. They have now built more pipelines bypassing Ukraine, but Natural Gas deposits have been found in Ukraine, and in Crimean waters. If Ukraine develop this gas, it will seriously affect the amount of gas that Europe buys from Russia. It also covers how Nato have expanded its membership Eastwards, which is seen in Russia as a security threat. It is an interesting watch, however it is one persons analysis of the situation, so other videos will have different views.

YouSayYesISayNo · 03/03/2022 18:45

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LadyMonicaBaddingham · 03/03/2022 18:47

@Gizacluethen

In my head I've kind of considered it the same kind of thing as the Falklands.
Excellent point. (whispers) Gibraltar...
MorganKitten · 03/03/2022 18:53

Because it used to be in the Soviet Union, which was pretty much all Russia

AhNowTed · 04/03/2022 00:10

@YouSayYesISayNo

But that was my entire point. Ukraine also gained independence from another country, and some in Ukraine would feel that they didn't get all of it, and some is still occupied, and now the invader is trying to get it all again.

I'm Irish and I'm well aware that there are a significant number of people from the UK who seem to think Ireland should have followed the UK out of the EU, who think that we are pretty much part of the "British Isles", who don't realise we don't take Sterling in our shops etc.

It's no joke, when people from one country feel they own bits of another. However, my post pointed out that it would obviously be completely wrong for the UK to "take back" Ireland, and similarly it's it's completely wrong for Russia to "take back" Ukraine.

I'm genuinely baffled that anyone would think I was saying it'd be a fair enough thing to do. I'm being accused of insensitivity, ignorance and minimising by one or two posters who completely misread what I said and decided to attack me for what they thought I said.

It's pretty insulting, tbh.

Hi

I was one who was gobsmacked at your post.

I'm also Irish, living in the UK for 30 odd years.

The bit that led me to believe you couldn't have a clue when taking about Ireland was this:

"After all, they [Ireland] have no intention of illegally annexing NI."

The very idea that Ireland could be accused of "illegally annexing" NI is ludicrous.

When it was literally robbed in the first place.

And to the poster who said "it was agreed by both sides". Ostensibly perhaps, but under extraordinary duress.

Post-Brexit I honestly believe we will see a united Ireland in my lifetime.

But it won't be because Irish citizens want it. Most Irish people from the Republic couldn't care less.

It will be because the citizens of NI will see it's economically in their best interest.

YouSayYesISayNo · 04/03/2022 00:56

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mathanxiety · 04/03/2022 01:18

Excellent point. (whispers) Gibraltar...

...Northern Ireland, Chagos Islands...

mathanxiety · 04/03/2022 01:18

...Scotland...

mathanxiety · 04/03/2022 01:21

MorganKitten

No, that's not why.

Russia and Ukraine were like England and Scotland are now for a few hundred years.

DublinFemale · 04/03/2022 07:05

I still find it fascinating how people leave Ireland decades ago yet appear to have inside knowledge as to how most Irish people feel.

As for the people of NI been the only voice in the issue, well that's not true. Ireland changed its constitution to get the GFA over the line. Irish people with a vote most certainly have a voice.

Anyways back to real topic, the situation in Ukraine.

LolaIsHome · 04/03/2022 07:49

(English) I think the Irish aspect is relevant in the broader discussion, as is mentioning India, Kenya, Malaysia, etc. And even most recently Iraq. However, I'll refrain from comments on a specific country lest it upset people.

I think the themes are essentially the same. You've got a much stronger country preying and exploiting a weaker neighbour, and/or place where they have a strategic interest. We've done that through our history, so have France, Germany, Italy. Russian State/Putin is doing exactly the same now.

It was wrong when we did it, it is wrong today too.

Lambkin689 · 04/03/2022 07:57

To everyone saying only Putin thinks this... I think you are underestimating the extent to which Russians are brainwashed in an autocratic country where education and media is tightly controlled. The Russians protesting were very brave but they are a minority. Most Russians do believe this invasion had to be carried out before Ukraine joined NATO, which they see as an aggressive anti-Russian organisation.

AhNowTed · 04/03/2022 08:11

@DublinFemale

I still find it fascinating how people leave Ireland decades ago yet appear to have inside knowledge as to how most Irish people feel.

As for the people of NI been the only voice in the issue, well that's not true. Ireland changed its constitution to get the GFA over the line. Irish people with a vote most certainly have a voice.

Anyways back to real topic, the situation in Ukraine.

I take it that's some thinly veiled dig at me.

I am hardly on the other side of the world. I can commute to Dublin as easily as Birmingham.

And my entire family, and my husbands family live in Ireland, as do many friends.

We have phones and FaceTime and all sorts! I can read that Irish Times just like you can.

I'd say I've as good an idea of how Irish people feel as you do.

AhNowTed · 04/03/2022 08:20

And don't tell me my Ukrainian colleague, here for 20 years, with her family still in Ukraine, knows nothing.

bythebanksof · 04/03/2022 08:35

For those wondering about the sentiment inside Russia, I found this article an interesting read:

www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2022-03-03/will-putin-lose-russia

ScrollingLeaves · 04/03/2022 08:54

“@bythebanksof

For those wondering about the sentiment inside Russia, I found this article an interesting read:

www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2022-03-03/will-putin-lose-russia“

Thank you very much. That is exactly what I was wondering about.

jobhunter7 · 04/03/2022 12:01

From watching various youtubers... some Russians tend to think Belarus and Ukraine are essentially Russia... but not the other soviet states...

Ukraine used to be "Little Russia"
Belarus was "White Russia"

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Ohfortheloveofgodwhatnow · 04/03/2022 12:38

@Teawaster

I'm from ROI , living in NI and I didn't take offence to the comments made by the poster who compared the Irish situation to what's happening . It was completely hypothetical which the poster made clear and in my view she was just making it more relevant by using an example with countries that we are more familiar with , which have had a turbulent past
Absolutely 100% agree. But god almighty, isn’t there an awful lot of outrage elsewhere on this thread Confused