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Somebody explain why Russians believe Ukraine is part or Russia....

192 replies

jobhunter7 · 02/03/2022 20:58

I know it used to be part of the Russian Empire. But do they believe the same about Poland or Finland which were too? And what other former parts of the USSR do they believe to be still basically Russia.

OP posts:
daimbarsatemydogsbone · 02/03/2022 21:47

[quote Horological]@XelaM can you explain why the history of Crimea is relevant? Putin has not invaded Crimea he has invaded the whole of Ukraine.[/quote]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation

mathanxiety · 02/03/2022 21:52

It comes down to historical ties. Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire (and subsequently the USSR) since the end of the 1700s, with parts east of the Dnieper part of Russia since the end of the 1600s.

There have been a few breaks in continuity - the German Empire occupied the province of Ukraine for a while after hostilities had ceased in WW1, and the Nazis invaded during Operation Barbarossa but were ultimately defeated by the Red Army in WW2.

The province of Galicia / Galizien in the north (location of Lviv, a city with several former names) was controlled by Austria Hungary until the end of WW1.

JunkIsland · 02/03/2022 21:55

Op didn’t say Poland and Finland were in the USSR.

BonnieBlue88 · 02/03/2022 22:15

@Wnkingawalrus

I think most Russians recognise Ukraine as its own sovereign country but would continue to think of Ukrainians as their brothers and sisters in a cultural sense. Similar to how the Scots and Irish might consider each other.

That’s interesting, no idea if it’s right. I knew a Ukrainian who for years used to say he was Russian.

It is right.
Horological · 02/03/2022 22:39

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

I know about the history of the situation with Crimea. I just wanted @XelaM to say why problems with Crimea would lead to Russia invading the whole of Ukraine ?

It doesn’t make sense.

Getoff · 02/03/2022 22:43

@rattlemehearties

WTF! Poland and Finland were not in the USSR! Wow OP. Where did you go to school?
You're the second person on the thread to say this. You're both in the wrong. OP did not say Poland and Finland were part of the USSR, she said they were part of the Russian Empire.
TattiePants · 02/03/2022 22:44

@rattlemehearties the OP didn’t say Finland and Poland were in the USSR. She said they were in the Russian Empire, which they were.

TattiePants · 02/03/2022 22:45

Cross posted @Getoff!

Windbeneathmybingowings · 02/03/2022 22:52

I think of it like Northern Ireland and the UK in a broad sense. Some want a united ireland and some don’t. Putin wants a united USSR.

WhathaveIdoneagain · 02/03/2022 22:58

OP, I second other posters in recommending Prisoners of Geography by Tim Marshall. He explains the situation really well.

FrothyB · 02/03/2022 23:13

Whilst we in the UK have been encouraged for the most part to see our cultural roots as unimportant, as we are all the same, anyone can be British, we can take the favourable bits of different cultures and use then to make our own more vibrant etc, that is not often the case in other parts of the world, even in Europe.

England as a country has been pretty well defined for over 1000 years. Great Britain as a singular entity for nearly 300 iirc. We haven't lost land, we haven't been conquered, or ruled by an outside force (from a purely English perspective), so we can't understand the emotions of what drives a conflict like this.

Consider the Scottish independence vote. 45% was it that said yes to leaving the union? And that's before the issue of Brexit came into the picture. Consider the troubles in Northern Ireland.

As another example, Hungary was chopped up in 1920, with lands Hungary had owned for hundreds of years given away to other nations, including half of what is now Romania, and indeed a section of Ukraine which is known as Karpatalja. These regions held many ethnic Hungarians who were suddenly separated from their countrymen, from their culture. In the areas where they are a majority, they still fly Hungarian flags, speak the Hungarian language primarily and refuse to be Slovak, Ukrainian, Serbian etc in any meaningful way, and the break up of greater Hungary is still felt keenly by many in modern day Hungary. That is after 100 years. 3 generations at least have never known greater Hungary, or have lived in "Hungary" yet the feeling is still so strong.

That's what is at the heart of this war, at least for the men and women on the ground. Bringing those they see as brothers and sisters back into the fold. Reclaiming land lost to them that had been historically theirs for centuries, united under the banner of one nation again.

I fully support Ukraine by the way. I've been many times and it breaks my heart to see it at war this way, I was just trying to paint a picture of the feelings of different peoples that for us in the UK can be hard to empathise with.

Obira · 02/03/2022 23:22

I disagree that Putin wants to recreate the USSR. He wants to recreate the Russian Empire, which would include Poland and Finland. He thinks he’s Peter the Great.

IvorCutler · 02/03/2022 23:32

It’s nothing like Ireland! It’d be more like the UK coming back for control of the republic than NI uniting with ROI.

NeedAHoliday2021 · 02/03/2022 23:38

Russian news is showing this as “freeing the people of Ukraine from nazi leadership” in a “special military operation”. Obviously there’s also a lot of history and along the borders the people in Ukraine speak Russian.

Davros · 02/03/2022 23:46

Echoes of Hitler and the Sudetenland

SmellyOldOwls · 03/03/2022 00:01

@IvorCutler

It’s nothing like Ireland! It’d be more like the UK coming back for control of the republic than NI uniting with ROI.
Yes. NI is like Crimea in this scenario.
Laptopsandmouses · 03/03/2022 00:06

@LawnFever

I think Ukraine is just the start of it, if he gets control of Ukraine he’s going to set his sights on other former USSR countries Sad
No way, it’s a disaster for him, he’s taking so many losses and Russia is being crippled. He needs to save face or win and get out. He’s not going after any other country now, Ukraine has been too hard,
DoorWasAJar · 03/03/2022 00:09

From Wikipedia, might be of interest

Somebody explain why Russians believe Ukraine is part or Russia....
BitOutOfPractice · 03/03/2022 00:13

[quote Horological]@XelaM can you explain why the history of Crimea is relevant? Putin has not invaded Crimea he has invaded the whole of Ukraine.[/quote]
You know that Russia annexed (euphemism for invaded) the Crimea in 2014. And that, at that time, Crimea was a part of the Ukrainian state. That was his toe in the water. Now he’s going in full throttle.

It’s a bit like done one invading Kent and taking it over before coming back for the whole of the UK.

BitOutOfPractice · 03/03/2022 00:14

*someone

BitOutOfPractice · 03/03/2022 00:15

I believe Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania are next on Putin’s list of “not really countries” he’d like to see back in the Russian fold. He is a megalomaniac

zoeFromCity · 03/03/2022 00:38

Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania are NATO members, and NATO (or specifically Poland, US, Turkey and rest of EU) are now up and ready to do something, so not a great target.

If Ukraine went well for Russia, Moldova or officialy adding Belarus would be more probable targets.

YouSayYesISayNo · 03/03/2022 00:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

BitOutOfPractice · 03/03/2022 01:07

@zoeFromCity I didn’t say I thought they’d be a great target. I said that Putin believes, in his shady brain, that they are not “real” countries and he’d like them back under Russian control. Who knows what stupid decisions he might make. I mean, a few short weeks ago who’d have thought he’d actually invade another sovereign state.

ThymePoultice · 03/03/2022 01:18

[quote Horological]@XelaM can you explain why the history of Crimea is relevant? Putin has not invaded Crimea he has invaded the whole of Ukraine.[/quote]
He seized Crimea 8 years ago.