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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who do I believe?

206 replies

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 02/03/2022 11:00

Adult DS and GF have been together for 6 years. Met overseas and she has come back to live with him from another country. Always had a pretty good relationship with her although she can be a little sensitive over certain issues so have learnt to just be diplomatic. She is 32, 6 years older than him.

Hysterical phone call received from her last night telling me he had locked her out of their flat. She said they’d rowed earlier, she’d gone out in her car to walk the dog. When she got back, he wasn’t allowing her back in and not answering her calls. As she was safe, I suggested she just waited in the car until things perhaps cooled down and asked if she wanted me to try and call him to talk to him? She was adamant that wasn’t a good idea so I wasn’t quite sure why I was called.

She was sobbing, told me she was very scared of him and that he had a very nasty temper. This genuinely alarmed me as DS has always been seemed pretty chilled and unless he’s very good at deception, we could be talking about a totally different person. I asked if he had been violent and she told me he had once ‘punched’ her in the arm in the car when they were driving. Without being there, I have no idea what his version of events was and I’m actually very alarmed to think my DS might be treating women like this.

Whilst staying in the phone to me, she tried the door again and got straight in. I could hear her shouting at him for locking her out - he denied he did - clearly he didn’t know it was me on the other end of the phone and I could hear everything. He tried to apologise but she accused him of not meaning it. She made a great big deal out of it to him, keeping on and on. Surely, if she was frightened of him, she wouldn’t have continued to up the anti and be attempting to diffuse the situation?

She regularly goes back to her home country alone to her family. Her and DS have no children, I own the property they are living in and apart from DS she has no ties to this country. If he was that controlling or scary, why does she keep come back or am I in denial about my DS?

I posted on here 18 months ago about a dog saga too. She acquired this part German Shepherd puppy, despite my DS not wanting her to, but he relented. She didn’t agree with formal training and this combined with lack of socialisation in lockdown has made it into a potentially dangerous animal that has already bitten DS. Again, if DS was that much of a ogre, why would he still tolerate the dog or even allowed her to have it in the first place?

When he visits us (she rarely comes because she can’t leave the dog alone without company) she constantly messages him. Maybe it’s because he’s controlling, but again if he was, why would he leave her to do her own thing? She has her own car, comes and goes as she pleases, does online tuition/translation and doesn’t appear to be a ‘prisoner’

My DD can’t believe her brother is as violent as the GF is implying and thinks she was just trying to get her version of events in first. I don’t want to think my DS is an abuser and if I found out he was, adult or not, I would be down on him like a ton of bricks.

DH and DD thinks GF was very wrong to get me involved in their argument and that she’s the one being manipulative but it still worries me that any woman might be scared of my DS. I really want to hear his version of the situation but tbh, also want to keep well out of it too.

OP posts:
Anniefrenchfry · 02/03/2022 11:03

Isn’t that gaslighting her? Locking her out then lying that he didn’t? Because I would bet good money that’s exactly what he did.

vipersnest1 · 02/03/2022 11:06

Did he know you could hear?

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 02/03/2022 11:06

@Anniefrenchfry

Isn’t that gaslighting her? Locking her out then lying that he didn’t? Because I would bet good money that’s exactly what he did.
That’s what worries me. Is this another side of him I’m not aware of or seeing?
OP posts:
JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 02/03/2022 11:07

@vipersnest1

Did he know you could hear?
No. Her phone was in her pocket.
OP posts:
Starlight86 · 02/03/2022 11:08

Why would you keep out of it, the GF is clearly asking for help whether its true or not its a cry for help.

Also, DD seems in denial.

buzzandwoodyallday · 02/03/2022 11:09

Whether he's abusing her, or she's abusing him, they have a toxic relationship and for both of their sakes, should end it.

Unfortunately though, that's for them to decide and not you. Personally I would tell your son exactly what has been said about him and let the chips fall where they may.

AryaStarkWolf · 02/03/2022 11:09

@Anniefrenchfry

Isn’t that gaslighting her? Locking her out then lying that he didn’t? Because I would bet good money that’s exactly what he did.
You have no idea if that's the case.
AryaStarkWolf · 02/03/2022 11:10

You really need to actually speak to your son about it OP

inheritancetrack · 02/03/2022 11:14

@Anniefrenchfry

Isn’t that gaslighting her? Locking her out then lying that he didn’t? Because I would bet good money that’s exactly what he did.
She could equally be gaslighting OP?

Talk to him in confidence and get his take on the situation.

imo when you are the parent to a child and wife of their father, you know what your child is like, you know the environment they grew up in and what their experience of the man in their life was. If any of this is problematic, then I would think DS was capable of being abusive. However he is not a teenager, so you have known him a long time which you can't say for the GF so have an idea of his personality.

Personally I would encourage him to end the relationship because either way it is toxic.

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 02/03/2022 11:14

@AryaStarkWolf

You really need to actually speak to your son about it OP
You’re probably right. I feel like I need to be direct and ask him outright if there’s a reason any woman might say she feels scared and see what his reaction is. It’s just so bizarre as it seems so out of character for him to be deceitful. If anything, he’s always been too open, trusting and honest with people and not shown the guile to be manipulative.
OP posts:
MayBMaybenot · 02/03/2022 11:15

Maybe (just maybe!) she's the controlling one and he locked her out for his own safety. You say he denied locking her out and tried to apologise, but she kept upping the ante on their argument. She doesn't sound scared to me ....

If I were you I'd tell him you heard their argument and see what his take is on the situation, before I made a judgement.

FatFucker · 02/03/2022 11:19

Just go talk to your son. This sounds like a horrendous toxic relationship.

Maybe he needs your support to call it a day. The fact she is ringing you with her side of the story first, raises red flags.

Please help your son. Mumnset prob isn't the best place to discuss this. It will be all your son's fault.

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 02/03/2022 11:23

*She could equally be gaslighting OP?

Talk to him in confidence and get his take on the situation.

imo when you are the parent to a child and wife of their father, you know what your child is like, you know the environment they grew up in and what their experience of the man in their life was. If any of this is problematic, then I would think DS was capable of being abusive. However he is not a teenager, so you have known him a long time which you can't say for the GF so have an idea of his personality.

Personally I would encourage him to end the relationship because either way it is toxic.*

Exactly this. He’s not a saint but he’s never, ever shown signs of violence or bad temper. He’s always hated confrontation - even as a child. As parents, DH and I have always had a stable marriage and he’s always seen the women in our house treated with respect and as equals.

He’s confided in the past that he’s concerned that the GF is socially isolating herself and doesn’t make enough effort to mix with others (language is definitely not an issue) He’s tried to encourage her to get a job with others but she’s always preferred to stay and work behind a computer screen - which is entirely her choice,

OP posts:
yellowsmileyface · 02/03/2022 11:31

This is a really tricky one. My instinct is to always believe the woman, but I do agree it's weird that she was shouting at him and upping the anti. I have experience of being in an abusive relationship and every single one of my actions were rooted in desperate attempts to keep the peace. She could have felt more comfortable being confrontational with you on the phone, or she might have even been trying to provoke him to get him to respond in a way that might "prove" he's abusive. Who knows.

I do agree with others that regardless of who's at fault (for lack of a better word), this relationship is clearly very toxic, and you should definitely talk to your son. I'd say it is your business if your son's mental or physical wellbeing is potentially at stake.

Mossstitch · 02/03/2022 11:39

Sounds to me that it's more like him being abused, could she have left her phone on in her pocket on purpose and trying to convince you he is abusive?! Whatever it is you need to get your son to open up to you and help him whatever the problem especially as it's your house they are living in.

Catrice · 02/03/2022 11:41

Do you think GF is abusing DS? That was my first thought when reading the events of the locked out night. He locked the door for his own safety and then denied it as didn't want to make her angry?

AryaStarkWolf · 02/03/2022 11:45

Also, I'd be inclined to view the GF ringing her B/fs mother as a bit of a red flag, like she's trying to get him in trouble/cause issues for him. If she was really scared of him she would be calling the Police or a family member of her own

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 02/03/2022 11:54

@AryaStarkWolf

Also, I'd be inclined to view the GF ringing her B/fs mother as a bit of a red flag, like she's trying to get him in trouble/cause issues for him. If she was really scared of him she would be calling the Police or a family member of her own
That’s a very good point.

Something doesn’t feel right.

DS has occasionally expressed concern about GFs social isolation and seemed genuinely pleased when she formed a couple of friendships with adult pupils she was tutoring in her native language. He thought it was excellent that she was going out and meeting female friends for coffee etc. Surely a controlling violent man would want to restrict interaction with outsiders, not encouraging it?

OP posts:
AtrociousCircumstance · 02/03/2022 11:54

Talk to him, ask him. He is your son.

WallaceinAnderland · 02/03/2022 12:06

If he is being abusive to her then she should leave. If she is being abusive to him then she should leave. So either way they should not be together. Can you end their tenancy?

LottyD32 · 02/03/2022 12:07

From the op, my money is on her being the abuser.

SallyWD · 02/03/2022 12:11

You really need to talk to him. Explain what she said and hear his version of events. He might be an abuser or he might be a victim going through hell. Or maybe they're as bad as each other. It sounds like an awful relationship. It reminded me of a situation my brother was in where he was gaslighted and abused by his partner. She would violently attack him and the one time he reacted by pushing her away she called the police on him. When the police arrived he was bruised and bleeding and she was fine. Of course I'm not saying this is the case with your son and partner. There was just something that reminded me of it - my brother's ex was constantly painting him as an abuser who she was terrified of when he's actually the most gentle person you could meet.

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 02/03/2022 12:13

@WallaceinAnderland

If he is being abusive to her then she should leave. If she is being abusive to him then she should leave. So either way they should not be together. Can you end their tenancy?
Unfortunately, there’s no agreement as such.

She’s off tonight for 10 days back to her home country - prebooked despite the row. I think it might be the ideal opportunity for some serious thinking on both sides. If he is abusive, now would be a good time for her to make the break. Unfortunately, her dog - whilst not particularly friendly, is a victim in this - will be left behind. DS will look after it well but is yet another problem to be sorted.

OP posts:
JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 02/03/2022 12:26

@SallyWD

You really need to talk to him. Explain what she said and hear his version of events. He might be an abuser or he might be a victim going through hell. Or maybe they're as bad as each other. It sounds like an awful relationship. It reminded me of a situation my brother was in where he was gaslighted and abused by his partner. She would violently attack him and the one time he reacted by pushing her away she called the police on him. When the police arrived he was bruised and bleeding and she was fine. Of course I'm not saying this is the case with your son and partner. There was just something that reminded me of it - my brother's ex was constantly painting him as an abuser who she was terrified of when he's actually the most gentle person you could meet.
This is exactly my dilemma.

There is no way I’m going to defend my DS if he’s an abuser and I’ve tried to message him in the last half hour but he says he doesn’t want to talk about it. I’m assuming it’s either embarrassment that I’ve been pulled into it or he can’t talk because she’s there. My instinct is; if he was controlling and manipulative, he would have a line of defence and justification for last night. After all, he’s had plenty of time now to prepare a story to ‘present his case’ This is his usual pattern of dealing with confrontation. Keep his head down, not talk about it and hope it will blow over.

OP posts:
AryaStarkWolf · 02/03/2022 12:27

She’s off tonight for 10 days back to her home country

Maybe a good opportunity for you to go round there and talk to your son. By my calculations he was very young when they got together, 20 maybe? Maybe he doesn't know that this shouldn't be how relationships work (good ones anyway)