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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who do I believe?

206 replies

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 02/03/2022 11:00

Adult DS and GF have been together for 6 years. Met overseas and she has come back to live with him from another country. Always had a pretty good relationship with her although she can be a little sensitive over certain issues so have learnt to just be diplomatic. She is 32, 6 years older than him.

Hysterical phone call received from her last night telling me he had locked her out of their flat. She said they’d rowed earlier, she’d gone out in her car to walk the dog. When she got back, he wasn’t allowing her back in and not answering her calls. As she was safe, I suggested she just waited in the car until things perhaps cooled down and asked if she wanted me to try and call him to talk to him? She was adamant that wasn’t a good idea so I wasn’t quite sure why I was called.

She was sobbing, told me she was very scared of him and that he had a very nasty temper. This genuinely alarmed me as DS has always been seemed pretty chilled and unless he’s very good at deception, we could be talking about a totally different person. I asked if he had been violent and she told me he had once ‘punched’ her in the arm in the car when they were driving. Without being there, I have no idea what his version of events was and I’m actually very alarmed to think my DS might be treating women like this.

Whilst staying in the phone to me, she tried the door again and got straight in. I could hear her shouting at him for locking her out - he denied he did - clearly he didn’t know it was me on the other end of the phone and I could hear everything. He tried to apologise but she accused him of not meaning it. She made a great big deal out of it to him, keeping on and on. Surely, if she was frightened of him, she wouldn’t have continued to up the anti and be attempting to diffuse the situation?

She regularly goes back to her home country alone to her family. Her and DS have no children, I own the property they are living in and apart from DS she has no ties to this country. If he was that controlling or scary, why does she keep come back or am I in denial about my DS?

I posted on here 18 months ago about a dog saga too. She acquired this part German Shepherd puppy, despite my DS not wanting her to, but he relented. She didn’t agree with formal training and this combined with lack of socialisation in lockdown has made it into a potentially dangerous animal that has already bitten DS. Again, if DS was that much of a ogre, why would he still tolerate the dog or even allowed her to have it in the first place?

When he visits us (she rarely comes because she can’t leave the dog alone without company) she constantly messages him. Maybe it’s because he’s controlling, but again if he was, why would he leave her to do her own thing? She has her own car, comes and goes as she pleases, does online tuition/translation and doesn’t appear to be a ‘prisoner’

My DD can’t believe her brother is as violent as the GF is implying and thinks she was just trying to get her version of events in first. I don’t want to think my DS is an abuser and if I found out he was, adult or not, I would be down on him like a ton of bricks.

DH and DD thinks GF was very wrong to get me involved in their argument and that she’s the one being manipulative but it still worries me that any woman might be scared of my DS. I really want to hear his version of the situation but tbh, also want to keep well out of it too.

OP posts:
girlmom21 · 13/03/2022 09:29

I don't think the relationship is abusive. I think it's toxic.

APineForestInWinter · 13/03/2022 09:43

I remember your previous thread.
You and your son are being too passive. Take control of the situation now. Make arrangements for the dog now. Pack her things now. All which hotel she'll be staying at in her return. Meet her at a neutral location or deliver her items to her hotel.

Speakuptomakeyourselfheard · 13/03/2022 15:36

I think the advice from 'APineForestInWinter' is good. Present her with a fait accompli - the dog is gone, here's your stuff, goodbye. Although like others, I have my doubts as to whether the threats over the dog are her way of emotionally blackmailing your son, so that he begs her to stay for the sake of the dog. Do come back and let us know the outcome OP.

Cherrysoup · 13/03/2022 15:51

I’m relieved for your ds. I think he would have struggled on until she decided to go.

Quite honestly, there are worse things than pts for an aggressive dog. It may never be re-homed. There are far too many well-socialised dogs in rescue for an aggressive one to have much of a hope.

Flatwhitetostayin · 13/03/2022 16:04

I would seek advice from a vet or the RSPCA. I'm assuming your son isn't the legal owner of the dog so wouldn't be able to just hand it over to a shelter, but i'm sure a vet or the RSPCA would be able to intervene in a professional capacity as they would never want to see a dog PTS if it wasn't totally necessary. Unless the dog has in some way been abused, i can't imagine a trainer wouldn't be able to sort out it's behavioral issues if they are just related to being poorly trained/not trained. And some shelters have volunteers who would be able to take the time to do this.

I agree with the poster above who says that saying that about the dog is akin to the 'i am going to kill myself' and also the poster who said to take charge with handing over her stuff and getting the dog to a safe haven.

Out of curiousity, does your son have a relationship with her parents/family? Does he know much about her past and past relationships? Is this a pattern?

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 13/03/2022 18:29

Update.

GF is returning tomorrow to collect her stuff and wants to stay overnight in the property. Odd, if DS is so ‘frightening’ and she’s scared of him.

We have managed to find a German Shepherd rescue group who are willing to take the dog and work with it. DS sent me a video of it this afternoon and it was playing and interacting beautifully with him. It is a reactive dog and not socialised - and certainly didn’t like me or DH! - but there’s clear evidence that it’s not an totally evil, aggressive dog and there’s potential that with someone experienced with the breed that it can be acclimatised.

DS has told GF of this plan and she was livid as she says it’s her dog to do with what she wants. DS has stood his ground and said he also cared for it, walked it regularly etc. and firmed a bond and that her destruction of the animal is just a metaphor for the relationship/collateral damage. Had they not separated, she wouldn’t be looking to pts. I warned him that he may be wise not to leave her alone with the dog as she may well carry out her threat to make a point.

She is refusing to sign the dog over to him and would rather destroy it than even allow him to keep it as his own pet.

Am I legally entitled, as the owner of the property, to deny her entry or restrict her entry to a time limit to allow her to collect her belongings whilst the dog is kept somewhere out of her clutches? With any luck, she will be returning to her home country within days anyway.

OP posts:
MrsMinge · 13/03/2022 18:54

Did she text her threat to have the dog PTS. If she did that could go in your DS favour and Keep the dog safely away from her
No vet will put a healthy animal to sleep unless it's dangerous
I'd stay with your son while she's at the flat or get someone else too.. The gloves are off now

WallaceinAnderland · 13/03/2022 18:58

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas

Update.

GF is returning tomorrow to collect her stuff and wants to stay overnight in the property. Odd, if DS is so ‘frightening’ and she’s scared of him.

We have managed to find a German Shepherd rescue group who are willing to take the dog and work with it. DS sent me a video of it this afternoon and it was playing and interacting beautifully with him. It is a reactive dog and not socialised - and certainly didn’t like me or DH! - but there’s clear evidence that it’s not an totally evil, aggressive dog and there’s potential that with someone experienced with the breed that it can be acclimatised.

DS has told GF of this plan and she was livid as she says it’s her dog to do with what she wants. DS has stood his ground and said he also cared for it, walked it regularly etc. and firmed a bond and that her destruction of the animal is just a metaphor for the relationship/collateral damage. Had they not separated, she wouldn’t be looking to pts. I warned him that he may be wise not to leave her alone with the dog as she may well carry out her threat to make a point.

She is refusing to sign the dog over to him and would rather destroy it than even allow him to keep it as his own pet.

Am I legally entitled, as the owner of the property, to deny her entry or restrict her entry to a time limit to allow her to collect her belongings whilst the dog is kept somewhere out of her clutches? With any luck, she will be returning to her home country within days anyway.

Unless she has been paying you rent, I would think you can deny her entry.

Why is he letting her stay overnight? Best to make a clean break.

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 13/03/2022 19:08

@MrsMinge

Did she text her threat to have the dog PTS. If she did that could go in your DS favour and Keep the dog safely away from her No vet will put a healthy animal to sleep unless it's dangerous I'd stay with your son while she's at the flat or get someone else too.. The gloves are off now
She did!

You’re right there. She’s certainly fighting dirty now.

OP posts:
maddening · 13/03/2022 19:20

Can you speak to the rcsa, surely she can't put a healthy dog to sleep?

Easterbunnyiswindowshopping · 13/03/2022 19:24

You be there. Ds keeps ddog in the kitchen and you hand over her stuff. She doesn't get to stay the night. Imo your ds need a witness incase she implies he was violent.

HELLITHURT · 13/03/2022 19:33

@Anniefrenchfry

Isn’t that gaslighting her? Locking her out then lying that he didn’t? Because I would bet good money that’s exactly what he did.
What makes you think that?
Newbeginnings90 · 13/03/2022 19:35

@AryaStarkWolf

Also, I'd be inclined to view the GF ringing her B/fs mother as a bit of a red flag, like she's trying to get him in trouble/cause issues for him. If she was really scared of him she would be calling the Police or a family member of her own
On this -

I was in an abusive relationship and for years the only person i told was his mother as i didn't want other people to think badly of him...

Prettynails · 13/03/2022 19:38

Nope she doesn’t get access. Change the locks - make sure the dog isn’t there. Any probs phone the police show they the text that she wanted to destroy the dog - say you are the owner and she isn’t welcome - her stuff is in bin bags here - take photos of it. Do not let them meet. Do not let her in. Change all locks and install and ring doorbell immediately or film her arriving and leaving. Done. Dog has been removed as you said you were destroying it, her are your things. No ds is not available for a chat. Thank you. Good bye.

Prettynails · 13/03/2022 19:38

Don’t let her stay then you potentially have a squatter

MrsMinge · 13/03/2022 20:05

Excellent advice from @Prettynails especially the ring door bell
I honestly would remove the dog though. If it’s registered to her and in the property the police can’t prevent her from taking it

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 13/03/2022 20:08

@Prettynails

Nope she doesn’t get access. Change the locks - make sure the dog isn’t there. Any probs phone the police show they the text that she wanted to destroy the dog - say you are the owner and she isn’t welcome - her stuff is in bin bags here - take photos of it. Do not let them meet. Do not let her in. Change all locks and install and ring doorbell immediately or film her arriving and leaving. Done. Dog has been removed as you said you were destroying it, her are your things. No ds is not available for a chat. Thank you. Good bye.
I’ve told her she can have access between 2pm and 4pm tomorrow. Anything she can’t take in that time - tough. She’s flying in and out of the U.K. so she’ll be restricted anyway with the amount she can possibly take anyway. None of the furniture etc is hers.

DS and dog will be absent.

She’s threatened to call the police and report him for ‘stealing’ her dog. I’ve just messaged her and said, “Try it and I’ll demonstrate you were intending on killing it anyway”

Wow! She went from 0 - 100 miles an hour in 24 hours. It all started off fairly amicably and then the threats started.

OP posts:
tempester28 · 13/03/2022 20:12

Are there visa issues? if it is very out of character for your son - is it possible that she is leading up to claiming domestic violence as a route to a visa.

1FootInTheRave · 13/03/2022 20:30

I am well aware that I've read a biased view of the ongoing issues. However, a decent and reasonable person doesn't set to destroy an animal. She's coming across as unhinged to me.

girlmom21 · 13/03/2022 20:31

The more you write the more I think she's the abuser. She clearly only wants the dog PTS to hurt him.

Gonnagetgoing · 13/03/2022 20:37

You posted about this a year or more ago.

The GF sounds very toxic and your DS is best off away from her but he will need a bit of support.

Gonnagetgoing · 13/03/2022 20:39

The GF sounds like she might have mental health issues, which is fine but if she’s unmedicated etc means she’s a loose canon. My DB had a GF who was bipolar and she was a nightmare as she often didn’t take her medication.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 13/03/2022 22:23

I saw the original thread too. Seems this GF has gone from the stance that training of any form is cruel, of avoiding going out and leaving the animal without a petsitter because it's cruel, and of expecting to bring a liability of an animal to others' homes when it's known to bite people, because that's cruel too.

Now that the dog's predictably become the liability she's turned it into, she wants it euthanized. Not only that, she's adamant against all reasonable objection to kill the animal 'because it belongs to her', and is incensed at the suggestion of a less extreme solution. That's is one hell of a switch.

Her refusal to listen to more humane solutions suggests this is only being done as a way of hitting out at her ex-partner. Her proprietorial attitude to an animal dependent on her, the cavalier disregard for its life and desire to throw it away like an unwanted possession IMO does point to a controlling, abusive personality (whether she has an undiagnosed mental health issue or not is immaterial). If she's lied about her abusive partner to his own mother then that's some level of manipulation. DARVO is also a favoured tactic of abusers.

In my estimation getting her permanently out of that property and the dog into a shelter is a win-win. Given this is her attitude to her supposedly beloved pet, I'd be thanking providence that the son never had children with her. And as a casual MN bystander, this would be the best outcome to a pain-in-the-arse in-law thread I've seen in quite a while.

Hope it all works out that way, OP. Flowers

HollowTalk · 13/03/2022 22:25

Oh thank god that relationship has ended. Your poor son.

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 13/03/2022 23:11

Thank you all for your support and advice - truly appreciated.

We’re all emotionally drained tonight.
She’s played DS like a violin in the 24 hours. She’ll sign the dog over. Then she won’t. Then the euthanasia is back on. Then it’s not. Then it is. Then she doesn’t care anyway. Then she’s going to report him to the police for theft of the dog. Then she changed her mind. And so on.

Finally he’s had the guilt tripping. It’s all his ‘fault’ that she’s been forced to behave like she has. He’s been ‘cruel’ by obstructing her efforts to pts the dog!

DS is not a wuss and I can’t recall seeing him cry for years, but he’s been on the phone to me this evening sobbing with the drama. He’s pretty wrung out by it all. It will be a relief when she has collected her stuff tomorrow and we can all close the door on this exhausting chapter. Luckily, with her living overseas, the chance of crossing paths ever again is very unlikely!

OP posts:
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