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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who do I believe?

206 replies

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 02/03/2022 11:00

Adult DS and GF have been together for 6 years. Met overseas and she has come back to live with him from another country. Always had a pretty good relationship with her although she can be a little sensitive over certain issues so have learnt to just be diplomatic. She is 32, 6 years older than him.

Hysterical phone call received from her last night telling me he had locked her out of their flat. She said they’d rowed earlier, she’d gone out in her car to walk the dog. When she got back, he wasn’t allowing her back in and not answering her calls. As she was safe, I suggested she just waited in the car until things perhaps cooled down and asked if she wanted me to try and call him to talk to him? She was adamant that wasn’t a good idea so I wasn’t quite sure why I was called.

She was sobbing, told me she was very scared of him and that he had a very nasty temper. This genuinely alarmed me as DS has always been seemed pretty chilled and unless he’s very good at deception, we could be talking about a totally different person. I asked if he had been violent and she told me he had once ‘punched’ her in the arm in the car when they were driving. Without being there, I have no idea what his version of events was and I’m actually very alarmed to think my DS might be treating women like this.

Whilst staying in the phone to me, she tried the door again and got straight in. I could hear her shouting at him for locking her out - he denied he did - clearly he didn’t know it was me on the other end of the phone and I could hear everything. He tried to apologise but she accused him of not meaning it. She made a great big deal out of it to him, keeping on and on. Surely, if she was frightened of him, she wouldn’t have continued to up the anti and be attempting to diffuse the situation?

She regularly goes back to her home country alone to her family. Her and DS have no children, I own the property they are living in and apart from DS she has no ties to this country. If he was that controlling or scary, why does she keep come back or am I in denial about my DS?

I posted on here 18 months ago about a dog saga too. She acquired this part German Shepherd puppy, despite my DS not wanting her to, but he relented. She didn’t agree with formal training and this combined with lack of socialisation in lockdown has made it into a potentially dangerous animal that has already bitten DS. Again, if DS was that much of a ogre, why would he still tolerate the dog or even allowed her to have it in the first place?

When he visits us (she rarely comes because she can’t leave the dog alone without company) she constantly messages him. Maybe it’s because he’s controlling, but again if he was, why would he leave her to do her own thing? She has her own car, comes and goes as she pleases, does online tuition/translation and doesn’t appear to be a ‘prisoner’

My DD can’t believe her brother is as violent as the GF is implying and thinks she was just trying to get her version of events in first. I don’t want to think my DS is an abuser and if I found out he was, adult or not, I would be down on him like a ton of bricks.

DH and DD thinks GF was very wrong to get me involved in their argument and that she’s the one being manipulative but it still worries me that any woman might be scared of my DS. I really want to hear his version of the situation but tbh, also want to keep well out of it too.

OP posts:
luckylavender · 12/03/2022 15:26

@Anniefrenchfry

Isn’t that gaslighting her? Locking her out then lying that he didn’t? Because I would bet good money that’s exactly what he did.
That's a little unfair. We don't know either of them, the GF could be gaslighting too.
WallaceinAnderland · 12/03/2022 15:32

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas

Well, it seems the 10 days apart have changed things. GF messaged DS today. N. She wants to end relationship and is returning tomorrow to the U.K. to collect her stuff from the property. She has also made an appointment on Tuesday to have the dog destroyed. DS seems almost to have a sense of complete relief that it’s over although he is actually more upset about the dog and feels terrible as he feels it’s a victim of the situation. If anyone remembers from my original post 18 months ago, she took on this part German Shepherd puppy, had no experience of the breed, had some alternative ideas about training and it was never socialised so has become extremely reactive.
Believe it when you see it OP. Until then it could just be another part of their game playing. I hope she does move out and I hope they separate for good as it's a toxic relationship. That poor dog did not deserve this.
Easterbunnyiswindowshopping · 12/03/2022 15:37

My oldest ds was in a vile relationship - not the ds I have previously mentioned. They had a ddog. Ds was too strict on it and dil was too soft. I fostered it until a place was available in a rescue.. Porr thing was too far gone emotionally with 2 shocking owners. It bit a dc in it's new home and was taken back to the rescue where it had a breakdown and was pts. For your ds's ddog being pts isn't the worst that could have happen to it. Better than his gf using it as a stick to beat him with. Sad sad ending for that animal imo.

Crikeyalmighty · 12/03/2022 15:45

I think it’s more likely that she has the issues— put it like this if she has no ties here and keeps going and coming back— that makes me think she’s not that scared— I would have a chat just with your son — but as others gave said if you are scared and abused you tend to downplay and back away from conflict— not up the anti —

FairyCakeWings · 12/03/2022 15:49

Believe your son. He is your priority and his girlfriend sounds abusive.

Quitelikeit · 12/03/2022 15:51

You must be so relieved! Excellent outcome for all concerned.

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 12/03/2022 16:09

@Xpologog

Your son just has to beware the “I’ll have the dog destroyed” isn’t just dramatic scare tactics to make him beg her to come home. It’s a sad outcome for the dog but he’d never survive in a rescue centre.
From what he was saying this morning, he freely acknowledges the relationship has been rubbish for a while and he was just in denial. I can certainly believe him on that one. He’s always been very passive, doesn’t like change and prefers the familiar so would rather just stumble on from crisis to crisis. I actually feel GF has done the right thing for both of them by ending it.

I’m just stunned about her decision regarding the dog. The animal took precedence over everything and her life and lifestyle revolved around it, quite often to the detriment of their relationship. She insisted on getting it in the first place even though DS told her the timing wasn’t good and he was about to lose his job, but she went ahead anyway.

I totally agree with DS - it’s desperately sad though. She made the dog into what it became by not training and socialising it and now it’s about to pay the ultimate price. Even though he made it clear that it was her responsibility when she got it, I think he assumed that she would keep it whatever happened.

OP posts:
CrustyCrackers · 12/03/2022 16:18

Hmm call me cynical but I'd wait until she had actually left permanently
How has she made that decision about the poor dog? Would a vet put a healthy animal down without seeing it first or on advice from the police or animal charity?
I knew someone who behaved like you describe the GFs behaviour and everything was played out for drama and a reaction
I hope your son is ok

Justilou1 · 12/03/2022 16:26

I followed your previous thread about the dog, and all of this leads me to believe that this woman has a personality disorder of some kind. I would recommend that DS do the Freedom Programme (preferably before she comes home) online and get himself some regular counselling ASAP.

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 12/03/2022 16:28

@CrustyCrackers

Hmm call me cynical but I'd wait until she had actually left permanently How has she made that decision about the poor dog? Would a vet put a healthy animal down without seeing it first or on advice from the police or animal charity? I knew someone who behaved like you describe the GFs behaviour and everything was played out for drama and a reaction I hope your son is ok
Thank you. Think you’re right, it’s not over until it’s over and she’s finally taken her stuff and gone. I’m not sure what she has of value in the property, and if it were me - especially if it meant travelling overseas - to be tempted to cut my losses and write off clothes etc. It’s hardly worth the air fare, let alone the emotions of being again the presence of an ex partner.

DS has found a German shepherd rescue who said they will take the dog, but she is adamant she wants it PTS.

OP posts:
GoIntoTheLight · 12/03/2022 16:38

“DS has found a German shepherd rescue who said they will take the dog, but she is adamant she wants it PTS.“

How awful!! Could he take the dog there before she gets back? If they’re splitting anyway it’s not like he has much to lose.

Whoever’s in the wrong the relationship sounded toxic at best, glad she’s ending it.

CrustyCrackers · 12/03/2022 16:39

Her decision about still having the dog PTS doesn't surprise me sadly. I agree with the excellent advice from @Justilou1

billy1966 · 12/03/2022 16:39

@Justilou1

I followed your previous thread about the dog, and all of this leads me to believe that this woman has a personality disorder of some kind. I would recommend that DS do the Freedom Programme (preferably before she comes home) online and get himself some regular counselling ASAP.
Poor dog.

I think unless your son has a good hard look at himself, he is destined to a string of awful relationships.

I would think now is a good time to drop in the conversation that this timing works as you intend to sell the property.

I also wonder could this be an attention grab.

Flatwhitetostayin · 12/03/2022 16:51

I get a very bad feeling about this. The fact that she is saying she insists she wants the dog PTS, rather than re-homed makes me think she's bluffing - because no one would surely even consider that.

I second the comment about the Freedom course. If they do call it quits and she leaves the country without any fuss, your son sounds as though he would be vulnerable to another relationship like this if he is so avoidant of confrontation -or asserting himself in a relationship.

He is very lucky to have a mum like you. You sound very balanced and supportive. Don't feel bad about not being on his side from the get-go. We must never be so blinded by our love for people that we couldn't even conceive that they are capable of things that are out of their character. That is a very dangerous and allows so much abuse to go under the radar.

BurntO · 12/03/2022 16:59

You need to speak to him. No one here can help you know what the truth is. For what it’s worth when I have been abused in a previous relationship, it was his mother I called. I was too ashamed to speak with my own family and there was a part of me that felt protective over him, despite the abuse. So in calling his mother deep down I knew she’d love him regardless of what I told her but could also potentially help with the situation at hand ie calm her son down or be an outlet that wouldn’t hold it against me if I stayed with him. Sounds messed up I know. I also bet many mother of abusive men would swear their son isn’t like that. None of this means she is telling the truth of course. It sounds toxic all round and I think the best you can do is remain relatively impartial but supportive if they need help

PiperPosey · 12/03/2022 17:16

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas

Well, it seems the 10 days apart have changed things. GF messaged DS today. N. She wants to end relationship and is returning tomorrow to the U.K. to collect her stuff from the property. She has also made an appointment on Tuesday to have the dog destroyed. DS seems almost to have a sense of complete relief that it’s over although he is actually more upset about the dog and feels terrible as he feels it’s a victim of the situation. If anyone remembers from my original post 18 months ago, she took on this part German Shepherd puppy, had no experience of the breed, had some alternative ideas about training and it was never socialised so has become extremely reactive.
Glad she is getting the hell out. As a dog lover I'm sick about the dog. It shows what kind of person she is. Tragic.
cordelia16 · 12/03/2022 17:17

I feel so awful for that poor dog. What kind of person advocates to end a life when there is another viable option? Is there any way you can take the dog to the German shepherd rescue whilst she is still away? Sounds like that may be the best option for it regardless of what happens between DS and GF.

PiperPosey · 12/03/2022 17:20

DS has found a German shepherd rescue who said they will take the dog.

tell him to take it now... Immediately before she gets back!

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 12/03/2022 17:27

@PiperPosey

DS has found a German shepherd rescue who said they will take the dog.

tell him to take it now... Immediately before she gets back!

I have, and that he has nothing to lose but everything to gain for the animal. My view is; so what if she kicks off, she’s ended the relationship anyway. I’ve also said to him if it avoids another confrontation, to tell her I did it.
OP posts:
girlmom21 · 12/03/2022 17:35

Please let us know that the dog is safe op!

Burgoo · 12/03/2022 17:47

You can't make a valid assessment of the situation without knowing all of the facts. He very well may be behaving in ways which are totally unacceptable. On the flip side she may be doing what she accuses him of. Socially we are told that it is normally men doing this stuff to women, though from experience I have seen many cases where men simply don't report it (shame mainly).

I am intrigued about this idea she goes back home every so often. Again, true abusers wouldn't tolerate that. They want to control and "own" the other person and any potential situation for the abused to disclose to another person is often snuffed out. Also serial abusers will restrict phone access, money access, transport etc.

At the same time, I wouldn't want to assume she is lying (at best) and abusing him (at worst). She very well may believe he does all of this stuff and I wonder what her history is like re: abusive childhood. Just because someone seems to be one thing, doesn't mean they can hold it together very nicely when in the presence of loved ones. The number of times someone kills someone else and their neighbours/relatives and friends say "he was a normal, lovely person!"

Get more info. I do like the idea of you helping her get out of the relationship for both party's sanity.

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 12/03/2022 18:10

@Burgoo

You can't make a valid assessment of the situation without knowing all of the facts. He very well may be behaving in ways which are totally unacceptable. On the flip side she may be doing what she accuses him of. Socially we are told that it is normally men doing this stuff to women, though from experience I have seen many cases where men simply don't report it (shame mainly).

I am intrigued about this idea she goes back home every so often. Again, true abusers wouldn't tolerate that. They want to control and "own" the other person and any potential situation for the abused to disclose to another person is often snuffed out. Also serial abusers will restrict phone access, money access, transport etc.

At the same time, I wouldn't want to assume she is lying (at best) and abusing him (at worst). She very well may believe he does all of this stuff and I wonder what her history is like re: abusive childhood. Just because someone seems to be one thing, doesn't mean they can hold it together very nicely when in the presence of loved ones. The number of times someone kills someone else and their neighbours/relatives and friends say "he was a normal, lovely person!"

Get more info. I do like the idea of you helping her get out of the relationship for both party's sanity.

She’s never, ever been restricted by him. She’s always come and gone as she pleased. Apart from during the pandemic, she gone back to her home country every 6-8 weeks for a week/ten days. Had separate bank accounts, phone, car etc. He’s expressed concerns to me over the years about her reluctance to mix and that she’s socially isolating herself and apart from DS and her family at home, doesn’t have any female friends. I’ve known her for 6 years but I wouldn’t say I feel particularly close because she seemed to want to keep things slightly formal and didn't encourage friendship. DD is friendly, easy going and the same age and even she said the same. She eventually gave up trying because GF wouldn’t engage. It’s not a language thing because her English is absolutely fluent

You’re right. Even though he’s my son, my assumption and natural bias - possibly unfairly - is to tend to see a female as more likely to be a victim, that’s why I’ve struggled with this. I don’t want to think the sun shines out of him and he can do no wrong just because he’s my flesh and blood, but if anything, he’s too open and accepting. When I’m told that he’s ‘frightening’ ‘bad tempered’ ’aggressive’ I doubt myself and him too.

OP posts:
peepee123 · 12/03/2022 20:14

OP trust you gut. Your son sounds very passive and his GFs behaviour shows some abusive traits. It occurs to me that threatening to have the dog PTS is in place of a classic "I will kill myself" statement from an abuser.
I was in an abusive relationship. Ex's mother asked me if he had "ever hit me". She knew her son well. She believed he was capable of it.

CrustyCrackers · 12/03/2022 20:21

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas, she's setting the stage IMHO and the dog is her pawn
Your son will have to show ownership or authority to hand it over, I would take legal advice now if you can.

Thewindwhispers · 13/03/2022 09:23

My gut feeling says that she’s weaponising you against him as part of their power struggles. I can’t tell you whether or not he’s abusive, but from the facts you describe she doesn’t sound scared of him, she sounds manipulative.

I do think you should talk to him and ask what is going on and why they are together when they don’t seem happy.

I also think the relationship is doomed and the sooner it ends the better.