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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who do I believe?

206 replies

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 02/03/2022 11:00

Adult DS and GF have been together for 6 years. Met overseas and she has come back to live with him from another country. Always had a pretty good relationship with her although she can be a little sensitive over certain issues so have learnt to just be diplomatic. She is 32, 6 years older than him.

Hysterical phone call received from her last night telling me he had locked her out of their flat. She said they’d rowed earlier, she’d gone out in her car to walk the dog. When she got back, he wasn’t allowing her back in and not answering her calls. As she was safe, I suggested she just waited in the car until things perhaps cooled down and asked if she wanted me to try and call him to talk to him? She was adamant that wasn’t a good idea so I wasn’t quite sure why I was called.

She was sobbing, told me she was very scared of him and that he had a very nasty temper. This genuinely alarmed me as DS has always been seemed pretty chilled and unless he’s very good at deception, we could be talking about a totally different person. I asked if he had been violent and she told me he had once ‘punched’ her in the arm in the car when they were driving. Without being there, I have no idea what his version of events was and I’m actually very alarmed to think my DS might be treating women like this.

Whilst staying in the phone to me, she tried the door again and got straight in. I could hear her shouting at him for locking her out - he denied he did - clearly he didn’t know it was me on the other end of the phone and I could hear everything. He tried to apologise but she accused him of not meaning it. She made a great big deal out of it to him, keeping on and on. Surely, if she was frightened of him, she wouldn’t have continued to up the anti and be attempting to diffuse the situation?

She regularly goes back to her home country alone to her family. Her and DS have no children, I own the property they are living in and apart from DS she has no ties to this country. If he was that controlling or scary, why does she keep come back or am I in denial about my DS?

I posted on here 18 months ago about a dog saga too. She acquired this part German Shepherd puppy, despite my DS not wanting her to, but he relented. She didn’t agree with formal training and this combined with lack of socialisation in lockdown has made it into a potentially dangerous animal that has already bitten DS. Again, if DS was that much of a ogre, why would he still tolerate the dog or even allowed her to have it in the first place?

When he visits us (she rarely comes because she can’t leave the dog alone without company) she constantly messages him. Maybe it’s because he’s controlling, but again if he was, why would he leave her to do her own thing? She has her own car, comes and goes as she pleases, does online tuition/translation and doesn’t appear to be a ‘prisoner’

My DD can’t believe her brother is as violent as the GF is implying and thinks she was just trying to get her version of events in first. I don’t want to think my DS is an abuser and if I found out he was, adult or not, I would be down on him like a ton of bricks.

DH and DD thinks GF was very wrong to get me involved in their argument and that she’s the one being manipulative but it still worries me that any woman might be scared of my DS. I really want to hear his version of the situation but tbh, also want to keep well out of it too.

OP posts:
Easterbunnyiswindowshopping · 02/03/2022 12:29

Going by your previous thread which I remember well - maybe suggest to ds this is a great opportunity to agree to call it a day. She was imo unhinged back then and now is trying to get you on side against ds..

Easterbunnyiswindowshopping · 02/03/2022 12:29

Her motive? Get you to make him leave and she keeps the house...

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 02/03/2022 12:44

@Easterbunnyiswindowshopping

Going by your previous thread which I remember well - maybe suggest to ds this is a great opportunity to agree to call it a day. She was imo unhinged back then and now is trying to get you on side against ds..
Thank you - yes, well remembered.

That’s was her and the dog scenario in October 2020!

OP posts:
Bluetrews25 · 02/03/2022 13:05

From all you've said, it sounds like she is the controlling one.

Show him the sticky thread at the top of the relationships board.

Easterbunnyiswindowshopping · 02/03/2022 13:09

My adult ds was in a toxic relationship at 25. He was fully aware we knew the difficulties.. We supported him but not the relationship.. She used to sit in the car while he grabbed a quick coffee with us. We watched for signs he wanted to leave. When he was ready we were there.. She used to text me often complaining about him. Once she knew I wasn't on board with her crap she stopped. .
Oddly over 2 years post split she sent me flowers!! I had been on the shop where she worked. A one off visit. Long winded card saying we should be friends and that she still cared about ds. I binned the lot and never told ds. He is still paying off a 5 k loan she pushed him to get - for an engagement party!! Won't even go there!
Do not doubt your ds's integrity ime op.

WallaceinAnderland · 02/03/2022 13:11

If there's no tenancy agreement you need to sort that. Can you put the tenancy just in ds's name or tell them to both move out and let it to non family members. You could offer ds to come and stay with you whilst he's looking for something else to rent. That could be the catalyst for her to move out, taking her dog with her.

Other than that, you have no say in what they chose to do but if your ds is being abused he might appreciate the opportunity to use it as an excuse to get away from her.

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 02/03/2022 15:38

@Easterbunnyiswindowshopping

My adult ds was in a toxic relationship at 25. He was fully aware we knew the difficulties.. We supported him but not the relationship.. She used to sit in the car while he grabbed a quick coffee with us. We watched for signs he wanted to leave. When he was ready we were there.. She used to text me often complaining about him. Once she knew I wasn't on board with her crap she stopped. . Oddly over 2 years post split she sent me flowers!! I had been on the shop where she worked. A one off visit. Long winded card saying we should be friends and that she still cared about ds. I binned the lot and never told ds. He is still paying off a 5 k loan she pushed him to get - for an engagement party!! Won't even go there! Do not doubt your ds's integrity ime op.
Spoke to DD. DS doesn’t want to talk to us atm. Confused

DD pointed out and reminded me that GF doesn’t, and has never done anything that she doesn’t want to. DS was made redundant from the airline industry in 2020 and is desperate to get back in. She’s already dictating where she does and doesn’t want him based as she doesn’t like the idea of living in X,Y or Z. In the current economic climate, any base within reason should considered, so she’s potentially limited his scope. Again, this sounds more like a weaker man acquiescing to a more assertive woman - not an abusive male that she’s frightened of.

When they lived abroad and we visited them, there was always excuses from her about not joining us going out for a meal; she didn’t like the food, she had suddenly developed a food intolerance, she wasn’t well, she had work to catch up on etc etc. GF doesn’t like any of DS’s mates either and was pretty rude to DD’s fiancé when she first met him, although we put that down to cultural/language subtlety.

Without getting his side of what happened, it’s starting to look as though last night was the thin end of the wedge and DS may well have just had enough and, rightly or wrongly, locked her out to give himself some breathing space.

OP posts:
MiniCooperLover · 02/03/2022 16:43

I'm not sure he did lock her out!

NeverChange · 02/03/2022 20:08

You could discuss it with him face to face.

As his mum, you probably can easily tell when he's lying, what his typical body language is etc.

nancynoname · 03/03/2022 08:25

She sounds the abusive one.

It's actually quite sad that you'd immediately jump to her "side" against your own son, when there hasn't been any proof whatsoever that he's (been) abusive. She sounds very manipulative.

Regarding the phone, your son didn't know his words were being broadcast, so he had no reason to try and fake playing nice. His response was genuine and didn't show any signs of abuse.

Momicrone · 03/03/2022 08:44

I'm pretty sure not every mother knows their son as well as they think they do, but either way, their relationship sounds toxic.

billy1966 · 03/03/2022 09:26

The relationship sounds toxic.

I think give it a day or two but tell your son that you want to speak to him as you are concerned.

She does not sound cowered by him.

If you withdraw your support for the relationship, you can ask them to move out of your property.

Her calling you sounds manipulative.

They are living in your property, you have skin in the game.

Are they loud neighbours?

If the relationship is as toxic as it sounds, he does not want to be cavalier with contraception.
Flowers

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 03/03/2022 09:30

@nancynoname

She sounds the abusive one.

It's actually quite sad that you'd immediately jump to her "side" against your own son, when there hasn't been any proof whatsoever that he's (been) abusive. She sounds very manipulative.

Regarding the phone, your son didn't know his words were being broadcast, so he had no reason to try and fake playing nice. His response was genuine and didn't show any signs of abuse.

This is exactly what I’ve been struggling with.

So often we’re programmed to believe women are more likely to be the victims and that the perpetrators are so good at hiding/convincing others that they are blameless. I would absolutely hate to think my son was capable of this sort of behaviour but would also not want to be in denial if he was.

When I received a phone call from a sobbing, distraught woman telling me how frightened she was of my son and his temper and how she’d been appeasing him for years, it really shook me up and created a doubt in my mind that the man I knew might not be quite what I believed he was.

I have to say, once the initial shock passed and talking it through with DH and DD, they both reminded me of little incidents throughout the years when arrangements that we’d all agreed on had to be suddenly changed because GF wasn’t happy but DS would immediately defend and justify her reasons, no matter how unreasonable they seemed at the time.

Incidentally, DD got married last Saturday and a great time was had by all, but there was a weird moment when DD and SIL had the first dance. As soon as they put their arms around each other and the music started. GF said, just loud enough for me to hear, “How pathetic” I ignored it at the time but in hindsight, a strange comment to make at a wedding.

OP posts:
HikingforScenery · 03/03/2022 09:46

Either (or both) of them could be the abuser.
We’re l only guessing here.
Speak to your DS. While she’s away, it’s the perfect time for him to prepare himself and leave his abuser, if that what she is.

Also, in your shoes, I’d probably give her a ring too as she reached out to you and doesn’t to her some more. While she’s seeing her family, it could be the best time for her to make a decision to leave her abuser, if that’s what your DS is.

HikingforScenery · 03/03/2022 09:48

It doesn’t matter if your DS has never shown signs of violence, etc etc.

We’ve all seen countless posts on here where abused women are afraid to tell family theirs brig abused because their partners present completely differently to close friends and family.

I don’t see eggs the gf had to gain by falsely accusing your DS of abuse to you.

Benjoir · 03/03/2022 09:54

@AryaStarkWolf

You really need to actually speak to your son about it OP
I agree with this
JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 03/03/2022 10:14

You really need to actually speak to your son about it OP

Sadly, at the moment he’s not responding to messages or phone calls. This is very typical of him to avoid talking about anything uncomfortable or awkward. He always withdraws into himself rather than deal with potential confrontation. I’ve learnt over the years to give him space and time until he’s ready to open up although I really want to hear his version of events asap.

OP posts:
ClockWatcher1986 · 03/03/2022 10:25

Random observation: I have no idea where the GF is from, but some countries seem to have different attitudes to drama. Eg they are more comfortable arguing, involving others in arguments etc. I work with people from across Europe and there are definitely some who are more comfortable taking things to a much higher level of drama than others. Might explain some of her behaviour here? Although the wedding comment was just plain rude!!

HotPenguin · 03/03/2022 10:36

I'm not sure you need to work out who is "right" and who is "wrong"? The being locked out sounds like a misunderstanding, maybe the door's a bit stiff and she jumped to the conclusion she had been locked out? Seems unlikely your son did it on purpose if he was apologetic when she went back.

If they've had an argument then she might feel scared of him even if he's not been physically aggressive?

I think you should focus on supporting your son if he wants your help rather than trying to work out who is right and who is wrong. I assume she rang you because you are the landlord and she thought she couldn't get in? Doesn't necessarily mean she's trying to get her story in first or drag you in to their relationship.

Tomnooktoldmeto · 03/03/2022 10:41

I too remember the previous thread about your DS and this girlfriend

I’m team DS, she seemed a manipulative princess who controlled him and you back then and it’s seems nothing really has changed especially as the dog is still present

Your DS struck me as an appeaser back then, anything for a quiet life and the girlfriend clearly knew which buttons to press. Sadly it seems not much has changed she’s just sucking you in to it , seeding doubt about your son so she stays in control

How you solve this I’ve no idea sadly

PunishmentSnart · 03/03/2022 10:47

I remember your last thread too. GF sounded awful then.

I agree with PP's saying she is the abusive one. Your son sounds like he doesn't was to talk because he is embarassed.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 03/03/2022 10:47

@billy1966

The relationship sounds toxic.

I think give it a day or two but tell your son that you want to speak to him as you are concerned.

She does not sound cowered by him.

If you withdraw your support for the relationship, you can ask them to move out of your property.

Her calling you sounds manipulative.

They are living in your property, you have skin in the game.

Are they loud neighbours?

If the relationship is as toxic as it sounds, he does not want to be cavalier with contraception.
Flowers

This...

An acquaintance's son is in a similar type relationship... Everythjng she has told me about the gf behaviour are red flags.
Please keep private notes about what you notice and hear...

If she feels she is losing control, she may well up the narrative that your son is abusing her... Any contemporaneous notes you make may be really helpful... In terms of times /dates /behavior.

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 03/03/2022 12:44

Interesting.

DH managed to get hold of DS and he clearly feels really awkward that I was pulled into the argument. He admitted to me that they did have a fierce row and that he himself is possibly at fault because he bottled up his emotions over a few days and just blew on Tuesday. He is adamant that he didn’t lock her out either. The flat is ground floor, so a front door and a French door with access to the kitchen via the garden. Apparently, a key was left in the inside lock on the front door so GF wouldn’t have been able to get in from the outside but the back door was left open as she always comes in this way when she returns with the dog. I know for a fact that that particular door can be stiff to open so it may well be, in her anger, she assumed he’d locked it if she was struggling to get in - particularly if emotions were running high.

He admitted several years ago he did shove her in the arm in an argument when he was driving the car and he bitterly regretted it, apologised profusely at the time and there had been absolutely nothing ever since although she continues to raise it every time there is a fight.

I told him that she had described his temper as ‘bad’, that she had called him ‘frightening’ and asked I him if there was any truth in what she had told me. His response was, “I don’t know what to say. I just feel stabbed in the back.” Very passive and resigned.

When he dropped her off at the airport, he said they parted amicably and there didn’t seem to be any hard feelings and that she said she would see him in 10 days.

OP posts:
Tomnooktoldmeto · 03/03/2022 13:12

Definitely seems that she is trying to isolate him from you as his support network by throwing doubt on his character and making him retreat further

I think in your place I would take advantage of the 10 days and let him know just how much you are ALL there for him because ifs she’s willing to try this tactic with his family no doubt she will with others and paint him as an angry bully

RonObvious · 03/03/2022 13:23

@AtrociousCircumstance

Talk to him, ask him. He is your son.
It's not that simple though. A close family member is in a toxic relationship, and he is 100% convinced that his girlfriend is the victim, and that nothing is ever her fault. We just don't understand what it's like to have her mental health problems etc etc. She has been physically and verbally abusive to him, but he can't see it, as she manages to twist things around every time. Any perceived criticism of her results in him stopping contact for months on end, which is more concerning, as it means he gets no outside reality check. He is convinced that everything is always his fault, and that he gets things wrong, or miscommunicates them, so is constantly trying to preempt and appease her. It's an awful, exhausting, soul-destroying situation.