"The pram doesnt go in the house before the baby does"

[PyongyangKipperbang]

Just watching some call the midwife on catch up. A father who has had a few says "I can see the pram from here [in the hall of their home], that makes me happy!"

But it wouldnt have been in the house would it? My grandma and my mother were both absolutely horrified when I bought my pram and took it home. It was horribly bad luck. I was led to believe that this was standard, it really upset my grandma in particular.

Of course what it really was was that back then there was a much bigger risk of the baby not coming home, so you made sure the baby was alive before buying the pram.

This wasnt just my family was it? I just dont remember anyone else who had kids after me, I was pretty much the first in my group, getting this from their mothers so it has made me wonder....

We bought a pram when our ‘not expected to survive pregnancy’ daughter was discharged from SCBU.
She stopped breathing two days after it was delivered and spent most of the rest of her very short life in hospital. We never got to use the pram and returned it after she died.

The idea that returning the pram was in any way painful compared to the loss of the actual baby who should have occupied it is amazing to me.
Parents don’t forget their loss, they don’t need prams/cots/baby clothes to be reminded of it. Those things don’t cause more hurt, the hurt is so enormous, it eclipses any jab that the sight of a newborn nappy might cause.

In some ways the baby equipment is a comfort, this baby was real, wanted and they are parents who lost a child. Nothing can ever be the same. They can’t put life back to how it was before their baby.

My DC are late teens now and quite a few of the other expectant parents I met when I was pregnant arranged for the shop or a relative to keep the pram and other large items until very close to the due date. I'm not sure if this was superstition or not wanting bulky items in the way until they were needed.

My mum was horrified when I bought everything quite early on and kept it at home. But she had several miscarriages at a fairly late stage and although she's not generally superstitions apparently she couldn't cope with using anything she'd bought for those babies for the next one, just in case somehow it attracted bad luck. She was also terrified when I had no morning sickness as the only pregnancies she wasn't unwell with were still born. I think we sometimes underestimate how much more risky pregnancy was a generation or 2 ago.

@HardbackWriter

I loathe superstitions anyway, but this one has actually made me angry as it's not merely silly, it's fucking dangerous. Anything that might lead to a woman who has had a stillbirth, believing that it wasn't for a reason utterly beyond her control, but rather, because of failure to observe some ducking stupid OWT, is just unacceptable.

I really agree with this - it's a way of reassuring some women that they'll be ok because the other women must have done something 'wrong', which is really horrible. It's obviously not at all comparable to stillbirth but when I was going through recurrent miscarriage a relative basically made me feel that it was my fault for getting too 'excited' about the pregnancies too early and so it was my fault I was upset because I'd got too attached (and it felt like they were saying on some level that it was my fault that it kept happening at all, like my unseemly desire to have a pregnancy work out was dooming them). It was, obviously, really upsetting.

How is other people living their life dangerous? I do t want a full nursery because if anything happened it's staring me in the face and I have to contend with dismantling it. Live your life how you please.

Nobody thinks setting a nursery up is a cause of stillbirth or is blaming anyone. If you don't believe superstition or don't mind having baby oriented things around after a loss then just ignore

I hate this. It makes me feel like you're getting it wrong if you need to get your pram or cot sorted before the baby is born because you don't have the logistics or the resources to do otherwise. As someone who struggles with OCD / magical thinking it's been really important to teach myself that things are not connected. Babies don't die because you bought a pram. You are not 'tempting fate' but announcing early or buying a few sleepsuits.

@Hoowhoowho I'm so sorry for your loss

@Hoowhoowho so sorry for your loss, I didn't mean for my post to be insensitive to those whose much wanted babies didn't make it through the SIBU journey

There is no right or wrong way to prepare for a baby, and there is absolutely no way to prepare for grief, I apologise if I was insensitive x

@WhatNoRaisins

That said I know a lot of people who waited until the 20 week scan for at least the bigger purchases, is this just the modern equivalent of this superstition?

We did this. I think we bought one babygrow between the 12 and 20 week scan.

I don't like it as a tradition.
I couldn't stand thinking that if something had happened to my son, those who had voiced the superstition would have even fleetingly thought we had "tempted fate" as opposed to been the victims of horrible circumstance.

@naffusername

You are right.

I didn't have the pram or the cot in the house before number one son was born.

My Mum drilled it into me.

Same here

You're right and it's not a question about the rightness or wrongness of believing in superstitions or whether some people ignored it.

It was an extremely common thing in Britain up to the early 1980s at least so it's an anachronism in a programme set in the 1960s.

Simply from that point of view it's as jarring as an adaptation of Pride and Prejudice where Elizabeth Bennet says Mr Darcy is really hot.

I like Call The Midwife. I understand poetic licence but this is a mistake and someone should have pointed it out at rehearsal stage otherwise the programme looks silly.

It might even make a useful plot point to discuss superstition. We have to say how things were, not how we would wish them to be.

'Nobody thinks setting a nursery up is a cause of stillbirth or is blaming anyone. If you don't believe superstition or don't mind having baby oriented things around after a loss then just ignore'

Er - some very definitely do think that, as evidenced by this thread 🙄 That's precisely what a superstition is, ffs.

And it absolutely can be dangerous. I don't believe I'll die in thirty days if I don't pass on a bloody chain email, for example - but some vulnerable people do. Often because they've been fed this almighty claptrap by their mothers and grandmothers.

My DM bought my nieces pram but refused to allow DB to collect it until after she was born.

It's superstition. Trying to control the uncontrollable.
And obviously, in previous centuries infant mortality was high and medicine was not as advanced as it is now.

I had a baby during the lockdown when all the shops were closed, so I sure was glad I bought the pram and everything else in advance.

@WhatNoRaisins

It never occurred to me to do this as it wouldn't have been practical. I just wanted to go home to everything ready and neither of our families were in a position to just drop all their commitments and drive several hours to bring us baby furniture.

I think it was a common superstition back when new mums were in hospital for a week or more and the family had plenty of time to get stuff together and things were usually ready, made not IKEA jigsaws!

Not seen anyone mention this yet but I'm currently 30w and we've had the pram set up for about a month now - to get DDog used to it. We were advised (by a few people and general internet) that it could take time for the dog to adapt and it would be better to get her used to things in good time than spring it all on her at once. She did bark at it for about 10 mins when it went up but has since ignored it. I've been told to take her for a walk with the empty pram too so she gets used to it being out and about with us as well (but can't bring myself to do that yet incase I look insane to all the neighbours haha). We'll also put the cot up and I'm going to try and get DH to bring something smelling of baby home before we are discharged for DDog to have a sniff. So there are good reasons to get stuff sorted early as well as waiting.

Of course it’s superstition. The pram being at Mothercare rather than in your house has no relation to whether your baby will survive or not.

Yes of course it's a superstition but in the event of a tragic outcome it would be easier for someone to phone the shop and explain you wouldn't be needing it than to have to quickly clear all the baby stuff away, as a couple I knew had to do.

@JudgeJ

Of course it’s superstition. The pram being at Mothercare rather than in your house has no relation to whether your baby will survive or not.

Yes of course it's a superstition but in the event of a tragic outcome it would be easier for someone to phone the shop and explain you wouldn't be needing it than to have to quickly clear all the baby stuff away, as a couple I knew had to do.

Exactly you don't have to fuss around trying to return or pass on things. You don't have to see the empty pram. It's everyone's choice, it's not hard to grasp why one might not want a pram set up just in case.

Same reason I wouldn't tell people immediately after getting a positive test. It doesn't cause a miscarriage but I'd rather wait than have to go back and rectify later (whether telling people the bad news, or dismantling furniture). Just rather not.

My eldest daughter is 28, and my gran insisted I leave my newly purchased pram at her house, until the safe arrival of the baby!!

So where do you draw the line? Can you have a Moses basket? Sheets? Changing mat? Any clothes? Car seat? In fact - should you even pack a hospital bag? And if you do all these things - should you then stress that you could be “jinxing” the birth - at a time when most mothers-to-be are already uneasy and hormonal?

When we arrived home at 5pm, winter, dark, exhausted, with a crying newborn, all I had energy for was to put sheets onto the Moses basket and Snuzpod. Good thing that’s all I had to do. My husband had to go back to the hospital to pick up my (delayed) medication.

I can’t imagine coming back to nothing to change her into or on, nowhere to set her down, nowhere for her to sleep etc.

In centuries past women used to sew their winding sheets before giving birth. Should we start doing that too?

I had a baby last year. We bought the buggy from a buggy shop. When paying they asked if we'd like them to keep the buggy in their stock room until the baby was born, so it's definitely still a common thing!

It was a more common superstition then, but that doesn't mean everyone did it.

^This. I'm 50 and have never heard of this superstition, not from my mum or my grandmother or anyone their age.

How is other people living their life dangerous? I do t want a full nursery because if anything happened it's staring me in the face and I have to contend with dismantling it. Live your life how you please.

It wouldn't be dangerous if everyone did indeed just do as they wanted and not project it onto anyone else. But it's pretty clear even in this thread that actually people have strong ideas about what should be done, and that slips really easily into blaming people who didn't do it - either directly for the tragedy (they're 'tempting fate' and so to blame if something goes wrong) or less directly that they've made their own suffering worse by not preparing for it properly. Either message is a really appalling message to give people who have been through such a terrible bereavement.

I heard of this but was brought up firmly with “ná bain le geis agus ní bhanfaidh geis leat” (don’t bother with superstitions and superstitions won’t bother with you)

I had enough to manage when the baby was born without having to collect prams and other equipment.

I had everything totally ready by the 20w scan as a big F YOU to fate/luck/chance.

But I imagine it's completely different when the death rate is high, its a self preservation thing, you don't have to see the baby stuff if you come home without a baby

@LadyCordeliaFitzgerald

I heard of this but was brought up firmly with “ná bain le geis agus ní bhanfaidh geis leat” (don’t bother with superstitions and superstitions won’t bother with you)

I had enough to manage when the baby was born without having to collect prams and other equipment.

That is such a great saying!

We did this too and ordered all the baby equipment. The shop delivered it before I got home from hospital. It was lovely!