Who the F**K still thinks voting Tory is a good idea.

[beachcitygirl]

Just that really. Sociopathic Patel refusing visas. In a time where we need leadership & empathy & intelligence there's a ducking idiot at the helm & Rees~Mogg making a fortune with insider trading.
Who the hell will admit to being so sociopathically selffish & grabby to still vote Tory?

@MaryAndHerNet

The problem is simple.

Too many people vote based on the leader.
It's a big popularity contest, that's all.

"I couldn't vote for Corbyn, he wore the wrong jacket, he has a beard, he's a lefty that likes mustard" etc etc.
So instead they vote BoJo the clown because he's a bit dim, a bit daft etc.

That's great. But there's no mention of policies, no mention of laws they want to pass or what they want to do for the people. So with disabled people under the Tories killing themselves, poor people starving to death, homeless people freezing to death on the streets etc. That doesn't matter, cause Corbyn is a lefty and Bojo ziplined..

What a load of bollocks. My vote in 2019 was very much based on policies. I'm very glad at this moment that the Putin-apologising unilateralist didn't get in.

These threads always amaze me. Do (usually lefty) posters think that insulting people is the best way to persuade them to change their thinking?

Baffling indeed and when we have another Conservative government and possibly Trump back in the White House they will feel vindicated rather than stop to consider they caused it. People seem to forget elections are lost not won.

Basket of deplorables worked so well for HC.

What a load of bollocks.

Agreed, it is. At least look at the issues than make up nonsense

My vote in 2019 was very much based on policies

I quote:
"Too many people vote based on the leader.
It's a big popularity contest, that's all."

Too many people doesn't mean all people.
Hth.

"You deserve every bit of Boris."

I would choose Boris a thousand times over the candidate who planned to remove our nuclear deterrent.

@MaryAndHerNet

My vote in 2019 was very much based on policies

I quote:
"Too many people vote based on the leader.
It's a big popularity contest, that's all."

Too many people doesn't mean all people.
Hth.

Well perhaps the poster could clarify just what was meant by "too many people". Two people? Three people?

Just how many people was she suggesting vote based only on their facial hair preferences?

Well perhaps the poster could clarify just what was meant by "too many people". Two people? Three people?

Okey doke, I'll clarify.

Tory voters I'll split into two groups.
Unread & Read

The "Unread" vote purely on the basis of the leaders charisma and likeability. They see Boris and his ways and think he's alright. They see Corbyns navy jacket and beard and think he's not alright. So they vote Boris.

The "Read" vote based more on policies and manifestos. They read what's happening in the world, the austerityz the brexit. The way the poor, the I'll, the disabled are being treated. They read the stats of PIP cuts leading to suicides and they hear about the unemployed starving to death alone in their flats... And think, yeah, that's what I agree with, and vote Tory.

Which camp you fall into, that's on your conscience to decide.

These threads always amaze me. Do (usually lefty) posters think that insulting people is the best way to persuade them to change their thinking?

I'm a lefty poster (and proud ) and I completely agree with you. And it's not just on here; it's real life too. I look around at some of my friends - people who would pride themselves on being kind, liberal, intelligent sorts of people - who are ranting about people being "too thick to vote" or "they're just gammon/brexiters/transphobes/bigots" or "All Tory voters are evil" at anyone who has the temerity to have a different opinion to them. They genuinely seem to hate - which is a strong word, but it's what they're doing - anyone whose views don't exactly align with their own. All nuance is lost and I genuinely don't understand why they can't see it, or how they think they will engage anyone in debate when they think they have the moral right to berate others.

Utterly baffling.

@Toseland

I’ll be voting Tory though I’d normally vote Labour (in a Labour area). Women’s rights will be absolutely decimated under Labour, the Lib Dem’s and the Green Party and I can’t vote for that.

But you're ok with the rape clause... 🤦🏻‍♀️ sure.. really standing up for women's rights.

The point is @beachcitygirl that if women are no longer understood to be (and legally defined as) adult human females then 'women's rights' as we have understood them up until that point literally cease to exist.

When we lose the language to describe ourselves as a distinct oppressed group how does law and practice even function to protect us?

We still have the right to request a woman healthcare professional, to be imprisoned in a single sex prison, to be housed in a single sex hospital ward, to play sport against other women etc. but all those rights are meaningless.

The rape clause would cease to be a women's rights issue entirely, it would be a pregnant person's rights issue - if you don't think that matters then you are entitled to your opinion but there are plenty of people who think it absolutely does matter.

@Valeriekat

Because the rest of them are even worse.

Define worse

@Migrainesbythedozen

I don't live in the UK so can't vote there, but despite being a Labor voter in my own country, I could never vote UK Labour. They are stripping women of their rights to safe spaces, their rights to privacy, their rights to dignity. Voting UK Labour would feel like a vote for the ultra far right.

However, I understand it's not compulsory to vote in the UK? (It is compulsory to vote in Australia) So my solution to those like me that would slit their wrists or lay on train tracks before they vote for a woman-hating party in the UK like Labour is simply to not vote at all. If enough ABSTAIN from voting, it will send a message to Labour.

Pointless

@MaryAndHerNet

Well perhaps the poster could clarify just what was meant by "too many people". Two people? Three people?

Okey doke, I'll clarify.

Tory voters I'll split into two groups.
Unread & Read

The "Unread" vote purely on the basis of the leaders charisma and likeability. They see Boris and his ways and think he's alright. They see Corbyns navy jacket and beard and think he's not alright. So they vote Boris.

The "Read" vote based more on policies and manifestos. They read what's happening in the world, the austerityz the brexit. The way the poor, the I'll, the disabled are being treated. They read the stats of PIP cuts leading to suicides and they hear about the unemployed starving to death alone in their flats... And think, yeah, that's what I agree with, and vote Tory.

Which camp you fall into, that's on your conscience to decide.

Or perhaps they apply some critical thinking to the hyperbolic claims you make. www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-did-austerity-kill-120000-people

Perhaps they also listened to the then Labour leader refusing to condemn the Russian government when it was clear that it was responsible for murders on British soil.

Perhaps they also saw the folly of unilaterally abandoning the nuclear deterrent when madmen like Putin still had access to such weapons.

Perhaps they were Jewish and considered leaving the country because of the behaviour of many people in the Labour Party.

Perhaps they found that Brexit would actually benefit them because of the oversupply of labour which had squeezed their wages.

Perhaps they didn't vote to leave the EU but could see the damage being done by the continued squabbling so decided that leaving and moving on was a better choice than a succession of further referenda.

Perhaps they'd lived in an area controlled by Labour for the last seventy years and decided that Labour wasn't working for them and that they had nothing to lose by changing that.

@stuntbubbles

Are you really saying that half the nation are sociopaths? Grabby? Or maybe just a bit thick as they haven't had the insights that you have ? Yes. Have you met people? They’re awful.

I might vote Tory. I didn’t vote for Boris last time - in fact I didn’t vote at all because I didn’t want Corbyn or Boris.

I think that Boris has handled the Ukraine situation well. He has been decisive with sanctions and encouraged other European countries to do this also. Additionally he’s given arms to Ukraine. He’s spoken to the people in their own language and done some pretty straight talking to Putin - that other leaders are afraid to do.

Re the issue of refugees, I honesty think that there are better places for displaced citizens than the UK. We are densely populated, all of our services (health, education etc) are under monumental strain - as is our housing stock. We import loads of food and are totally unsustainable on our own. Instead of giving people visas, I’d incentivise UK citizens to move abroad. And I mean millions of us going - to all parts of the world. We are totally overpopulated and conditioned to accept terrible services.

Re the issue of refugees, I honesty think that there are better places for displaced citizens than the UK. We are densely populated, all of our services (health, education etc) are under monumental strain - as is our housing stock. We import loads of food and are totally unsustainable on our own.

Housing shouldn't be an issue. Poland have been converting classrooms into temporary accommodation. There are plenty of village halls and event centres around where you could set up camp beds and organise volunteer-run canteens.

It's not a case of 'still' voting Tory for me because I haven't ever done so. However I can see what people mean when they say there isn't a viable alternative. Wales has had a Labour govt since the Senedd was created more than 20 years ago, and our health waiting lists are shocking, even before Covid, in 2020 5 out of our 7 health boards were in special measures, worst funded and poorest achieving education system in the UK, spent 100s of millions on planning for an M4 relief road that was then scrapped, same with loads of other initiatives, insane loss to the economy over some of our Covid-19 decisions with the rationale for them never published....etc. etc.

20 years of the same government with a chance to implement consistent policies is a golden opportunity rarely offered to political parties and yet I can't think of one sector where they've improved.

I still wouldn't vote Tory, but it means I do understand why people feel other votes are wasted - since I was first eligible to vote a number of elections ago none of my candidates have ever got in...

Perhaps...

Perhaps Tory voters just vote based on their own self interests...
Like voting to destroy the economy because there might be more debating.. idiotic.
Or voting out their council thinking a Tory one would be better... Idiotic.
Or voting based on smear campaigns and lies..

Ultimately.
A vote for the Tories is a vote saying that voter supports what the Tories are doing.

Here's a few links... I'm sure you'll read every single one..
www.theguardian.com/society/2021/oct/14/austerity-in-england-linked-to-more-than-50000-extra-deaths-in-five-years

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/feb/07/dwp-benefit-related-suicide-numbers-not-true-figure-says-watchdog-nao

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56819727

metro.co.uk/2021/10/04/half-of-people-on-universal-credit-were-going-hungry-before-losing-20-a-week-15359201/

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jan/28/disabled-man-starved-to-death-after-dwp-stopped-his-benefits

I always voted Labour, but now I feel politically homeless because of the assault on women's rights. I don't blame some women voting for Tory, as demonstrated on this thread. And I'm sure other people have their reasons for voting Tory, beyond just being "thick" as suggested on here. It's far more nuanced than that.

Are you sitting at your kitchen island with your bi-folding doors open sipping a nice cabernet sauvignon while the nanny irons young Tarquin's private school uniform?

That's the trouble with the left - they dismiss anyone who doesn't wholeheartedly agree with them as thick or selfish. And then they wonder why they don't get elected!

While the right care deeply about the poor and disenfranchised
There really are no absolutes.

@stuntbubbles

Are you really saying that half the nation are sociopaths? Grabby? Or maybe just a bit thick as they haven't had the insights that you have ? Yes. Have you met people? They’re awful.

Completely agree. Look at the self serving behaviour we saw at the beginning of the pandemic.

[quote Migrainesbythedozen]**@Eddielizzard* I'd love it if we could work up a campaign for spoiling votes in a specific way to protest against the erosion of women's rights.*

There is a way. Is voting compulsory where you are? Is it compulsory in England? Someone please help me out here, because I don't think it is but am unsure. The answer is very simple. Abstain from voting. If enough women (and male allies) choose not to participate in the vote, this will have an effect on both parties but mainly Labour. They will have to sit up and do something when they see women are not participating in the vote and Labour are losing hundreds of thousands of potential votes. They won't be able to hold out much longer after that. Something will have to give with them if there is a boycott of the election from women, sort of a reverse suffrage, if you will, to get positive change for women.

That is your very simple solution. Don't vote. Don't participate in the election. Abstain. Boycott. If a women's suffrage movement pushes for a national boycott, Labour will eventually collapse.

And then change will happen.[/quote]
But then you run the risk of the people that are voting, vote Labour and then women are fucked as they systematically dismantle womens rights to please a vocal minority. Surely it is better to actively vote against them and then they might get the message

Completely agree. Look at the self serving behaviour we saw at the beginning of the pandemic.

I couldn’t disagree more. Look at the sacrifices people made. I think you’d have to be pretty blinkered you not see the costs to so many