Page 17 | Who the F**K still thinks voting Tory is a good idea.

beachcitygirl · 2022-02-27T02:22:38+00:00

Just that really. Sociopathic Patel refusing visas. In a time where we need leadership & empathy & intelligence there's a ducking idiot at the helm & Rees~Mogg making a fortune with insider trading. Who the hell will admit to being so sociopathically selffish & grabby to still vote Tory?

verdantverdure · 08/10/2023 19:21

FrankUnderhand · 08/10/2023 17:13

I find these debates so depressing. We are faced with a choice between:

The party who have been in power for 13 years, and who have demonstrably trashed the economy, public services and our standing in the world.
The opposition who have ideas for how they will improve things, but can't say for sure how it will actually work until they actually look at the books, because they don't want to make empty promises they can't keep.

And yet people are still arguing that we cannot possibly take the risk of voting Labour because they might not make it work... so it's far better to vote Tory who have shown us for 13 years that they cannot make it work.

Obviously that's the rational argument.

That's why the Tories aren't appealing to people's rational sides, They're playing on their fears.

NeelyOHara1 · 08/10/2023 19:40

No pretence to persuade just castigate. At least you're honest even if it serves no purpose other than just dog whistling fellow echo chamber dwellers to virtually fist bump each other.

OMG12 · 08/10/2023 19:50

MarshaBradyo · 08/10/2023 17:28

It’s got to be quite easy to enjoy the best of U.K., live elsewhere and avoid the tax hit

Given they stay under the current 15 years no one hangs around to pay up

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Actually many do. But many do naturally move round too.

I just don’t think it will raise enough Money - as I said, I would love to see the figures for this

R37sraY · 08/10/2023 19:54

Andnowtowhatcomesnext · 08/10/2023 18:04

Whereforartthoudave · Yesterday 22:06

‘I agree no private school parent is going to vote for a party ‘

laughing at the idea that parents who are shelling out on average £20k PER child for private school were ever intending on voting Labour anyway.
93% voters have kids in normal schools. I don’t think it’s going to keep any party that’s not-the- Tories awake at night thinking that wealthy, private school users who only vote Tory will still vote Tory.

Yes. Very small percentage of voters will give a crap about VAT on private school fees. Having used a private school, and May do again, I can also tell you that many of the parents, myself included, think that the charitable status was ridiculous. VAT makes sense. It’s a massive luxury when there is free state provision

But it shouldn’t be.

The state wants to control your kids education for a reason.

If we still had the low cost private schools that the state drive out, education would be cheaper and better, just like food, clothes and cars.

R37sraY · 08/10/2023 19:56

Andnowtowhatcomesnext · 08/10/2023 18:04

Whereforartthoudave · Yesterday 22:06

‘I agree no private school parent is going to vote for a party ‘

laughing at the idea that parents who are shelling out on average £20k PER child for private school were ever intending on voting Labour anyway.
93% voters have kids in normal schools. I don’t think it’s going to keep any party that’s not-the- Tories awake at night thinking that wealthy, private school users who only vote Tory will still vote Tory.

Yes. Very small percentage of voters will give a crap about VAT on private school fees. Having used a private school, and May do again, I can also tell you that many of the parents, myself included, think that the charitable status was ridiculous. VAT makes sense. It’s a massive luxury when there is free state provision

State involvement in education is just so wrong.

OMG12 · 08/10/2023 19:59

verdantverdure · 08/10/2023 19:21

Obviously that's the rational argument.

That's why the Tories aren't appealing to people's rational sides, They're playing on their fears.

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Unfortunately- people look at the people involved with the Labour Party and are turned off. Keir Starmer has a questionable past and so many think he has a very questionable future. It’s clear he’s being used as the more acceptable face to win, but it’s clear he’s a Trojan horse to get hard left politics into Downing Street.

For me, their inability to stand up and state what a woman is. Is a massive issue. How can they further snd defend women’s rights if the don’t understand what a woman is. It’s not single issue politics. It’s the failure to grasp an underlying concept which makes them incapable (and probably disinterested in) the needs of over half the population. It shows me the leadership is easily manipulated, can’t respond to science and fails to listen to the electorate.

There is a frightening level of misogyny within the Labour Party - anyone who thinks that Labour are “for women” are deluded.

mummychivs · 08/10/2023 20:12

I can’t believe there are so many politically narrow minded idiots on this site! The worst PM that GB has ever had was Tony Blair (Labour) and he and his wife and allies are still making money on the back of his lies and decisions. It actually frightens me that we may have to live under yet another Labour Party.

Desdemonadryeyes · 08/10/2023 20:21

Apparently there was applause for Hamas at the Labour Party conference

sep135 · 08/10/2023 20:37

No pretence to persuade just castigate. At least you're honest even if it serves no purpose other than just dog whistling fellow echo chamber dwellers to virtually fist bump each other.

Yep. As with pretty much all MN threads on this topic. As a result, no Conservative voters are likely to bother engaging.

Which is pretty much the only object of these threads, just a lengthy, one-sided debate interspersed with a few pithy insults towards the odd sacrificial lamb that dares to stick their head above the parapet, however briefly.

Circe7 · 08/10/2023 20:41

@Andnowtowhatcomesnext
I don’t think anyone could argue that the state education option is adequate across the board or for every child though. If you live in an area where there are poor schools or have a child who just doesn’t fit into the state school you happen to have been allocated to (often due to SEN but also for a variety of other reasons) or you as a parent have a different idea about what makes a good education to the state’s idea or your child is extremely unhappy at school, then private school isn’t really a luxury - it’s often the only way to provide your child with an adequate education.

VAT isn’t strictly a tax on luxuries anyway of course. Plenty of things which might be considered luxuries are VAT exempt like private healthcare, theatre tickets and music tuition.

HiggyHop · 08/10/2023 20:43

I'm on benefits, due to illness. I'm scraping by and I REFUSE to vot for Labour or libdems.

The torys are the only people standing against the trans ideology.

Is it enough to make me vote for them?

No. They're finances are too messed up for that.

But I just simply won't be voting at all.

Which will probably help keep them in power.

Booklover40 · 08/10/2023 20:55

It actually frightens me that we may have to live under yet another Labour Party

I feel the same, it’s actually terrifying - I dread to think where we’d end up. 1984 doesn’t come close. And kiss goodbye to your safe spaces women.

My 12yo dd is already having to share toilet space with men in this crazy fucked up world we’re in - this was in a museum in a major city that had been closed for 5 years and had millions spent on it for “improvements”. On visiting a few weeks ago the only different I could see was a lot of TWAW/lgbtq+ type “art” shoehorned in along with the stuff that was already there and a new “gender neutral” toilet. Cue a lot of embarrassed looking people sheepishly entering the packed queue for the toilets - the men looked most embarrassed- the women just looked angry. I won’t be visiting again.

Why people think we’ll be better off under Labour I just can’t fathom. Their ideas are in cloud cuckoo land. Let’s just spend more money we don’t have and fuck things up even more until the tories get in again and have to pull back on things to try and level things out again. Then they’re blamed for cutting services. And so the cycle continues.

Unfortunately we can’t live in a world where everyone is affluent and everything works perfectly. The tories have faced an incredibly difficult period with Brexit/covid/the war in the Ukraine and all the fallout from it. I am 100% certain we’d be in an even worse mess if labour had been at the helm.

verdantverdure · 08/10/2023 20:56

HiggyHop · 08/10/2023 20:43

I'm on benefits, due to illness. I'm scraping by and I REFUSE to vot for Labour or libdems.

The torys are the only people standing against the trans ideology.

Is it enough to make me vote for them?

No. They're finances are too messed up for that.

But I just simply won't be voting at all.

Which will probably help keep them in power.

I judge them on their actions not empty words.

I don't have the luxury of letting a single issue control my vote.

Our country can't afford 5 more years of the Tories.

So I'll do what I can to get them out.

And that is to vote for whoever I have to who can beat our Tory MP in our gerrymandered Tory "safe seat".

verdantverdure · 08/10/2023 20:59

verdantverdure · 08/10/2023 11:42

What about the Tories stewardship of our country do people want more of?

Speaking of persuading...

What about the Tories stewardship of our country do people want more of?

OMG12 · 08/10/2023 21:04

Booklover40 · 08/10/2023 20:55

It actually frightens me that we may have to live under yet another Labour Party

I feel the same, it’s actually terrifying - I dread to think where we’d end up. 1984 doesn’t come close. And kiss goodbye to your safe spaces women.

My 12yo dd is already having to share toilet space with men in this crazy fucked up world we’re in - this was in a museum in a major city that had been closed for 5 years and had millions spent on it for “improvements”. On visiting a few weeks ago the only different I could see was a lot of TWAW/lgbtq+ type “art” shoehorned in along with the stuff that was already there and a new “gender neutral” toilet. Cue a lot of embarrassed looking people sheepishly entering the packed queue for the toilets - the men looked most embarrassed- the women just looked angry. I won’t be visiting again.

Why people think we’ll be better off under Labour I just can’t fathom. Their ideas are in cloud cuckoo land. Let’s just spend more money we don’t have and fuck things up even more until the tories get in again and have to pull back on things to try and level things out again. Then they’re blamed for cutting services. And so the cycle continues.

Unfortunately we can’t live in a world where everyone is affluent and everything works perfectly. The tories have faced an incredibly difficult period with Brexit/covid/the war in the Ukraine and all the fallout from it. I am 100% certain we’d be in an even worse mess if labour had been at the helm.

Absolutely this, why oh why can’t some women see how dangerous this is. I have never been so scared to be a woman. There was a great piece in The Guardian (somewhat ironically) saying that men in the Labour Party are using trans ideology as a way to excuse their misogyny- I think this is right right across the board, it’s something I’m seeing more and more. If a court lets a man off the hook for saying punch women in the face as a joke, where will it lead? Like it or not most of these “ liberal woke men don’t care about trans rights except to the extent they can use it to subjugate women and remove their voices. Women need to wake up to this and challenge every instance when a man tries to shut down a woman using those “magical words” and women need to stop enabling them.

Condo · 08/10/2023 22:03

No surprise there!

Condo · 08/10/2023 22:03

That was supposed to be in reply to @Desdemonadryeyes

Condo · 08/10/2023 22:11

@SerendipityJane yes who would want to live in Australia - better healthcare outcomes, higher energy efficiency and lower bills, higher wages, strict immigration so they can attract what they need to develop a better society, clean rivers and seas. Less crowded and better infrastructure with new schools and a a health and teaching workforce who aren’t disenfranchised. No brainer really.

Andnowtowhatcomesnext · 08/10/2023 22:20

Desdemonadryeyes · Today 20:21

Apparently there was applause for Hamas at the Labour Party conference

Utter bollocks! That is simply not true!

sep135 · 08/10/2023 22:20

No brainer really.

So you'd think but my friend emigrated to Sydney five years ago and hates it. Misses having European cities on his doorstep, British humour/culture and finds it hard to connect with people and make friends. His words, not mine.

R37sraY · 08/10/2023 22:23

Condo · 08/10/2023 22:11

@SerendipityJane yes who would want to live in Australia - better healthcare outcomes, higher energy efficiency and lower bills, higher wages, strict immigration so they can attract what they need to develop a better society, clean rivers and seas. Less crowded and better infrastructure with new schools and a a health and teaching workforce who aren’t disenfranchised. No brainer really.

Truly brutal Govt.

Tho I’ve read there is a significant rebellion so maybe not forever.

anyolddinosaur · 08/10/2023 22:24

YABVVU because there are dozens of similar threads and they are all boring.

JayAlfredPrufrock · 08/10/2023 22:25

@Andnowtowhatcomesnext
My apologies. It was at a hard left meeting that runs alongside the Labour Conference.

R37sraY · 08/10/2023 22:27

OMG12 · 08/10/2023 21:04

Absolutely this, why oh why can’t some women see how dangerous this is. I have never been so scared to be a woman. There was a great piece in The Guardian (somewhat ironically) saying that men in the Labour Party are using trans ideology as a way to excuse their misogyny- I think this is right right across the board, it’s something I’m seeing more and more. If a court lets a man off the hook for saying punch women in the face as a joke, where will it lead? Like it or not most of these “ liberal woke men don’t care about trans rights except to the extent they can use it to subjugate women and remove their voices. Women need to wake up to this and challenge every instance when a man tries to shut down a woman using those “magical words” and women need to stop enabling them.

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Not really following your argument.

Woke men are misogynists, sure.
Woke men support trans rights to virtue signal, sure.

But what has this to do with real trans people. Why would you want to trample on their rights?

Why not just avoid woke men? Conservative men are actually nice.

Condo · 08/10/2023 22:45

@sep135 fair enough. European culture is amazing to have on the doorstep, good job we have done most of it. Brutal government?! Like Hamas? Get real.