Who the F**K still thinks voting Tory is a good idea.

[beachcitygirl]

Just that really. Sociopathic Patel refusing visas. In a time where we need leadership & empathy & intelligence there's a ducking idiot at the helm & Rees~Mogg making a fortune with insider trading.
Who the hell will admit to being so sociopathically selffish & grabby to still vote Tory?

Frothy. MN leftist bingo. Personal taxation is a huge issue and actively impacting on productivity as the chancellor has been told in his own reports.

We have some of the highest marginal tax rates in the world. We also have one of the highest rates of state dependency where people aren’t paying in. It’s a huge problem. Scare off the people who are paying in to a majority of state dependents.

What about the Tories stewardship of our country do people want more of?

@Princessandthepea0
Did you mean the report on social mobility? Because there isn't a report entitled 'state dependency and income tax' is there? Do you mean the earlier claims made by the telegraph and others that half of all adults are now supported by the state?

And the personal tax thing isn’t so relevant to me. I’m more concerned on how we’ll pay generally when state dependency is so high and we have the policies floated

Agree with the MN leftist bingo.

I wish there was an alternative party political system to vote for.

Actually, no they’re not. Labour are ideologically driven a lot more than the Tories. Many of the Labour Party are misogynists, they like women to know their place. How many leaders of the Labour Party have been female. They Labour Party don’t believe in meritocracy. They prefer inertia. Socialism is about bringing people down to a level not raising them up. Women suffer in this scenario.

you can “FFS” all you like and make inaccurate assumptions (much like the Labour Party). But they are poor at managing the economy and in those circumstances the first people to suffer are women. Unemployment goes up- women are disproportionately affected both in terms of unemployment and rises in domestic violence.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/28/forget-andrew-tate-what-about-the-host-of-misogynists-in-labours-ranks

@Princessandthepea0 Hmmme I'm not sure it's that simple. One meta analysis seems to indicate that personal and corporate tax rates impact productivity (personal taxation rates slightly less important than personal)
https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/economics/how-do-taxes-affect-investment-and-productivity_230022721067
And another finds that cutting taxes for higher earners doesn't improve productivity
https://www.lse.ac.uk/News/Latest-news-from-LSE/2020/L-December/Tax-cuts-for-the-rich
The papers use sound methodology and robust data sets.
Your own personal views would (I'm guessing) would lead you to discount the second paper. But it's just a viewpoint isn't it? In reality we've enacted lots of different tax and spend approaches over the last 15 years. The last 3 years might have had a higher overall tax take but it's not been the norm. Neither the lower or higher tax takes have done bugger all to shift the entrenched problems of low investment and low productivity and falling real term wages for many. So...I stand by my point that arguing about whether the top rate of tax should move 1 or 2% in either direction is definitely frothing about the wrong thing.

@verdantverdure i don’t want the tories in power but neither am I buying what Labour or the Lib Dem’s are selling and I think a lot of people on this thread feel the same. I’m beyond depressed about the state of this country and it is why I’m leaving it.

Once we're not paying the Tory donor premium of 10x the going rate I expect we'll find we can afford all the things we used to have.

No chance

I've never known so many people emigrate. There's been a real exodus. We were almost one of the families who left.

But we also know plenty who are hanging on for a change of government/ending of the Brexit drain.

People who remember life in this country pre-the current Tories and know it can be better than this.

The hard part is funding the state not the other way round

That takes attracting tax payers

As a child of the 70s I had a few friends families emigrate - Australia was the destination of choice.

It's hard not to feel Douglas Adams based the concept of Golgafrincham Ark "B" on the situation. At least modern day émigrés will be able to get a decent haircut.

Labour are also making a song and dance about the non dom rules but I think that is a hiding to nothing. Non dom people will just leave!

I was just saying to DH I’d love to see their numbers on the non-dom situation. Yes many would leave if they lost this advantage (which is much smaller than it used to be),

@OMG12 Umm..no.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-which-party-has-a-better-track-record-on-the-economy

Labour has a better track record on the economy. You are accusing me of being ideologically driven but your bias is evident. I’m not denying left wing misogyny- I’d be stupid to try.

It’s a fantasy

They leave anyway, it’ll just be earlier or they won’t come at all

I find these debates so depressing. We are faced with a choice between:

1. The party who have been in power for 13 years, and who have demonstrably trashed the economy, public services and our standing in the world.
2. The opposition who have ideas for how they will improve things, but can't say for sure how it will actually work until they actually look at the books, because they don't want to make empty promises they can't keep.

And yet people are still arguing that we cannot possibly take the risk of voting Labour because they might not make it work... so it's far better to vote Tory who have shown us for 13 years that they cannot make it work.

I don’t know. I’ve been working with non- dons for many years. They are usually pretty international so it wouldn’t take much for them to go, although many have chosen the UK because they like it here. It just wouldn’t raise sufficient cash - I would certainly like to see the calculations

BREAKING

Leaked footage of the last cabinet meeting

Valeriekat · 27/02/2022 05:14

Because the rest of them are even worse.

In what way worse than lying, breaking the law, using power to line your own and your friends pockets, wasting tax psyers money in vanity projects, no internal part stability - stabbing each other in the back, tanking the economy, saying ‘fuck it’ to Fd king anything constructive about climate change.

Im guessing you read either the Daily Mail, The Times or just rely on SM. Please state exactly how you think any other party could be worse and what sources you have used.

I could do a better job than the current lot. I’d be shit at it, but at least I’d be honest, learn as much as I could, create policies aimed at bringing us together - rather than focussing on wedge issues, putting us against each other. At least my ego wouldn’t be the main driving factor in my decisions.

In what way worse than lying, breaking the law, using power to line your own and your friends pockets, wasting tax psyers money in vanity projects, no internal part stability - stabbing each other in the back, tanking the economy, saying ‘fuck it’ to Fd king anything constructive about climate change

You say that like it's a bad thing

It’s got to be quite easy to enjoy the best of U.K., live elsewhere and avoid the tax hit

Given they stay under the current 15 years no one hangs around to pay up

Whereforartthoudave · Yesterday 22:06

‘I agree no private school parent is going to vote for a party ‘

laughing at the idea that parents who are shelling out on average £20k PER child for private school were ever intending on voting Labour anyway.
93% voters have kids in normal schools. I don’t think it’s going to keep any party that’s not-the- Tories awake at night thinking that wealthy, private school users who only vote Tory will still vote Tory.

Yes. Very small percentage of voters will give a crap about VAT on private school fees. Having used a private school, and May do again, I can also tell you that many of the parents, myself included, think that the charitable status was ridiculous. VAT makes sense. It’s a massive luxury when there is free state provision

I live in Rutherglen. In the by-election last week the Conservative party candidate lost his deposit. I'm sure the party can afford it but I'd like to see that happen 600 times in the next general election.