Who the F**K still thinks voting Tory is a good idea.

[beachcitygirl]

Just that really. Sociopathic Patel refusing visas. In a time where we need leadership & empathy & intelligence there's a ducking idiot at the helm & Rees~Mogg making a fortune with insider trading.
Who the hell will admit to being so sociopathically selffish & grabby to still vote Tory?

Happy to and so are all the higher earners. The ONS stats prove this. Good luck getting a pension and living in a country of majority state dependents. People are taking you all at your word and leaving. Who is going to pay for it all now?

@Princessandthepea0
I agree that Labour must think that this will be a vote winner overall.

I do think it is a bit risky for them though - 6% of children go to private school at any one time. But far more than that spend part of their education at a private school - 17% of sixth form students are at private school. From that I would guess c.20% of children spend part of their education at private school. There are 14m children in the UK. 20% of that is 2.8m. Assume they all have two parents. c.5.6m voters are likely to be directly affected by this policy at some point, taking into account that those with younger children planning to send children to private school would take this into account too. That's around 10% of the voting population.

Because VAT on school fees is a "turkeys voting for Christmas" type issue, I would think that the majority people directly affected wouldn't vote Labour. But I think it's about more than just the money, as I said. People do vote for parties which support tax increases which negatively affect them - I have myself. But this is an attack on the value system of the voters concerned plus a financial hit.

There was a survey once that found that 64% of privately educated people have voted conservative at least once, and 30% multiple times. I'd assume similar might apply to the parents. So more likely to vote conservative but not as stark as you suggest. Anecdotally I know plenty of left wing private school parents.

Realise its an American based meme but the sentiment is the same

There is a big hoo-haha kicking off right now. It would appear there could be a financial BNPL firm sponsoring the Labour Party London regional conference. These deals are know to trap people in poverty. They are also know to have high interest rates. The same company may have been given a platform to speak about deregulation. That’s just going to hit the poor, like school policies will and all the other stuff.

I mean if you forget the irony of Labour being sponsored by a BNPL firm - it shows how any party will sell out. These companies trap the very people they purport to represent. Hence why people will choose the best party for them - if at all. They are all the same. Labour is not going to be saving us all any time soon.

I've always voted Tori but even I think it has just got embarrassing now. I think it might be time to let someone else have a go at being in charge (and I assume that means labour) as this isn't working.

It's not a 'hard concept to understand' .

It is that the position you take is disputed by many economists. You seem to be making similar arguments to Truss - that tax cuts are required to drive productivity? Although you are being very non-specific.

In 96/97 before Blair got elected there were high earners/tax payers who said they'd leave and take their tax with them. I'm sure a small number did. But what matters is the overall state of the economy.

The Tories have delivered - through choices they made - a stagnant economy and no wage growth - since 2010. This is what needs to change.

In addition the Tory choice to cut public services is also harming productivity. One small example is the high waiting lists for CAMHS - this results in affected parents working fewer hours and taking more time off. All this underinvestment is costing more than it saves.

No one thinks Labour is led by the Messiah. We can just see the need for a change of approach.

If you don't care who gets in, and are leaving anyway, then there's little point factoring in your position.

I genuinely wish you good luck wherever you move to.

They are a bunch of parasites on both sides. The size of the State is obscene and neither petty plans to fix it. The term “Uniparty” is accurate.

On leaving. Yes. People left in the 1970s. In the 1980s we didn’t think about leaving. There was opportunity here.

Now young people who can leave plan to leave.

Negativity or positivity won’t pay the tax burden

It’s madness to urge people who do pay it to leave.

How will you pick up the tab?

@MarshaBradyo I'm not encouraging anyone in general to leave. Just one poster who moans and then says they're going anyway. And says all high earners are leaving, which of course is tosh. Thankfully plenty of high earners have more of a sense of loyalty to their country and understand what tax is for. I'm married to one of those, and we have plenty of similar friends. I actually don't know any high earners who are leaving the country, and funnily enough I also know some people with kids in private schools who vote labour.

We can all use anecdotal evidence to support our views. It doesn't make it true of the nation as a whole.

Some will, some won’t but @Princessandthepea0 is right when she says Blair did not push this particular line of point scoring

He knew we do need tax payers to stay and not feel it’s better to go somewhere else

Starmer uses cheap political gimmicks to get votes but they will not help, and if you want positivity they are not that either.

The reason is there’s very little to offer atm that’s typically Labour so they are a diversion from the lack of funding possible

With the state dependency rate as it is we need higher earners to stay and help pay the tax burden

Goodness, what a surprise. Turns out Sunak was lying about those spiffy new transport links in the north to be paid for out of saved HS2 money.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67018666

People claim it's the 'only good option' but ignore other parties which actually support the working class instead of robbing more money from them
At the end of the day, tory voters are just the middle class only interested in protecting their own money

I highly suspect if Labour get in Keir Starmer will be gone in the year replaced by hard left. They tried direct tactics with Corbyn - now they have a more acceptable face but there’s so many hard left waiting to take over. It would be a disaster - esp for women. Hard left is the home of misogyny.

Are the Tories perfect - no. Is Labour a nightmarish hell (esp for women) - yes.

Are your kids old enough to have thought about it properly?

Why would any young man stay in a place which discriminates against him, resents him and fleeces him when there are jurisdictions which are keen to have his intellect, drive and hard work and will treat him well?

Well it’s backed up by statistical fact. I suggest you read actual data - it’s not anecdotal. The ONS 2023 report on state dependency and income tax is a good place to start.

Why is this debate framed around personal taxation and not political mismanagement / corruption?

The losses during the Liz Truss era are jaw dropping. This graphic puts the sums into perspective.
https://kamikwasi.tax/

@OMG12 Oh FFS - Labour are MUCH better overall for women, women suffer more from austerity than men, cuts to childcare, education, health and welfare benefits disproportionately impact women. But you know don’t let facts get in the way if your single issue blinkers - and I’m GC.

Who do people think will pay for this seismic change? And it isn’t just about personal taxation, but I’m not happy to stay in a country where I think my children will have less opportunity than me and DH. I also think Starmer is hard left.

Who do people think will pay for this seismic change?

Exactly

Well here is the problem. The majority of adults are now state dependents. Where is it coming from.

I always find these kind of debates depressing/fascinating as it quickly polarises to- who will pay for it... The rich (righto we're off then) or by cuts to the poor/state provision types (it's short sighted/immoral).
Personal taxation impacts us all so we become myopic and far too shouty about position on it. But in doing so we miss the big picture. The overall real economy is a mess, low productivity and terrible levels of investment in both the private and public sector compared to competitor's. We have created all the conditions that promote low levels of long term strategic planning and investment and instead promote an extractive hyper monetised approach to how to use capital. It doesn't benefit the country but it does benefit a small (but influential) few many of whom aren't even British so couldn't give a shiny shit about 'the state of the nation'.
Personal tax rates. itssuch a reductive debate and people get so frothy about it...classic 'look over here' whilst I steal your futures

Tatumm
The losses during the Liz Truss era are jaw dropping. This graphic puts the sums into perspective

No it doesn't !!

The £45 billion figure in the Led By Donkey's graphic relates to £45 billion worth of tax cuts announced in the mini budget - much of which was scrapped by Jeremy Hunt a few weeks later;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63284391

The main tax cut that did survive was scrapping the National Insurance increase/ Health and Social Care Levy (£12 billion). The Labour Party voted in support of the tax cut;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63215808

Problem is, all parties are the wrong party. There are no parties worth voting for!

That is correct. I actually backed that increase but the other parties voted against it