Who the F**K still thinks voting Tory is a good idea.

[beachcitygirl]

Just that really. Sociopathic Patel refusing visas. In a time where we need leadership & empathy & intelligence there's a ducking idiot at the helm & Rees~Mogg making a fortune with insider trading.
Who the hell will admit to being so sociopathically selffish & grabby to still vote Tory?

Because we're a tiny team and we discuss it!

Everyone has the right to vote for who they choose. OP, you seem to be yet another one of those lefties who believes in democracy until it doesn’t go your way.

How does that work then? Just for the state itself: education, defence, health and welfare, not enough money is coming in via tax. Owing to the fact the majority of adults now don’t pay in.

Of course they have the RIGHT to vote how they want to. No one's saying they don't. And other people have the right to express their opinion about it -even rudely; that's also part of democracy,

Well few on here as you well know op but many millions will still vote Tory

MN have been predicting a Labour landslide since I have been on here which is around 2004. MN
isn’t a reflection of society particularly around politics

Labour are on their way to a comfortable win not sure about a landslide but no doubt this shall be predicted

The thing is - it’s people like op who could well see another Tory government. That and Labour really are ineffective in opposition. People aren’t listening. The boomer generation are majority Tory - easy votes. We are now in a period of state dependency which is unheard of. The majority are now state claimants. Of course they will vote for more of the same - they aren’t paying for it. All that free money coming from those evil higher earners. Those higher earners are now leaving and changing economic behaviour. Labour have plans which will make that worse. Those people won’t be voting Labour. The people who fund the state won’t vote them in. They are more likely to vote as they have more to lose. Especially when it’s take, take, take and it’s never enough.

I’ve never voted Tory but I can easily see them getting in again. If Labour get in - it will be a short stint. Their plan is to tax the small minority paying for everyone else a little bit more. The last time a Labour government did that the whole tax take crashed. Who’s paying for it all then? I think what Tony Blair did get right is that you need people here paying taxes to pay for the nice stuff. Without them - everyone is in poverty.

That last line nails it.

And the rest..

Of course everyone has the RIGHT to vote how they want to. However, I think some people can get a little too invested in other people's opinions and voting behaviour.......

.

It's not just about income but also outgoings. This government have wasted billions. HS2, PPE, creating then deciding to scrap T levels, that's just the beginning of a long list. They're not the party of wise spending!

So what Labour's plans then? I haven't got a clue. Every time they are interviewed they don't tell us. Angela Raynor was on the Today programme this morning, bitterly criticising the Goverment's housing policy but seemingly having no idea what Labour would do. Same with HS2 - criticism and hyperbole yet steadfastly refused to answer what Labour's plans would be.
It seems the main purpose of interviews are to line up the excuses as to why there will be no utopia if Labour gets in next year - the main one going 'we have no idea what state things are going to be kept in' - she said that at least four times.
Unfortunately it's very easy to criticise, but to be credible you need solutions and ideas, and as far as I can see, Labour have neither

Their conference is next week, they've said they will have a number of policy announcements.

The Tories announced a smoking thing that looks unworkable, an A level change no one wants, the mismanagement-induced cancellation of HS2 and that's about it.

It is normal in a democracy to discuss politics - the way other people vote affects me and vice versa.

I'm invested in how the country votes, because it's my country.

Read yesterday's statistical data from the by-election

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-67029360?at_medium=RSS

Labyrinth....Yes of course you can discuss politics and the issues of the day and why you like or dislike certain policies. That's not my point. My point is in a democracy it's one person one vote and the way you vote is your own business. I would not judge you how you freely chose to exercise your vote. I have no interest in how you personally vote. By the same taken I hope for the same for myself. Unfortunately these days certain people have too much interest how other people individually chose to exercise their own vote. You've gone one go..use it, and then don't rudely judge others if they personally decide to vote a different way or try and ram your own views down their neck (like the original OP). It's absolutely none of anyone elses business. Its really just good manners.

It is about incomings though. We have the highest state dependency on record (ONS, 2023). Working age adults are not working enough to pay income tax to fund even the basic state.

I respect the right of others to vote how they choose of course but I will at times criticise.

I consider it my right in a democracy to disagree and it's ok to verbalise disagreement.

In some settings I steer entirely clear of politics, because it's not appropriate, but on a thread about voting I think it's fair enough to express a view.

This is because we have had stagnant wages and bugger all growth since 2010 - thanks to the Tories.

Stagnant economy. Thanks to the stupid austerity crap and persistent cuts.

The Tories cut us into this mess.

Labour at least understand we need economic growth. This is why business donors have switched to Labour.

Sunak is continuing the doomed strategy of cuts and no growth.

Yes obviously agreed. And you are (although slightly missing my point but no matter) making your point in a polite, non-confrontational and general way. This is how it should be.

@Northbright I think some votes are so personally enraging it is hard not to get angry.

I have not been rude to anyone who voted for Brexit, but I am very angry at what has been taken from me, my family and my country.

As consensus has broken down, as the Tories desperately look for wedge issues, politics becomes more divisive. It's harder now not to be furious. Sadly.

No - businesses will move to where they think their next hold on power is. Tell me, the current chancellor has been told in his own commissioned reports: the tax system is an leading cause of stagnation and lack of productivity.

In simple terms, the highest tax payers who are contributing the most to society financially are now changing behaviour. Reducing hours, moving, pensions etc. A combination of things: the huge cliff edges, high tax burdens at that level, high dependency on that level and unfairness when compared to the tax burden/salary in other western democracies.

Labour plans will make that worse. So whilst I won’t disagree Sunak’s police’s have doomed us to stagnation. As proven by the multiple reports into state finances - the reasons behind it will be made worse under Labour.

I think that's a perfectly reasonable way to feel. I completely get that and often feel the same.

But using Brexit as an example to clarify my point;

If you argue in a general way "Brexit is bad for the following reasons". Or "Brexit is good because X" or "you are wrong when you say there will be Brexit benefits and I say that for these reasons" That's absolutely fine. Trying to persuade people of your view is good and healthy in a democracy.

If however you say to someone "if you personally vote Brexit you are racist and thick and didn't know what you were voting for" or "you should not have voted for X and I know better than you how you should have used your own vote" that's not fine. But that's where we are these days.

Every time there is an election someone comes on here and spouts the “tories are scum” “how can tory’s live with themselves” spiel and yet we end up with a conservative government.

I’m increasing convinced these threads are started by some spad sitting in conservative hq.

@Princessandthepea0 i agree. We (both on high tax bracket) are emigrating as I’m not prepared to pay tax any longer under corrupt tories or incompetent labour. I also know of many people planning on getting out as they are sick of paying a fortune in tax to be unable to get decent health care/access to a dentist etc

How will it feel to be an refugee immigrant ?