Has anyone refused to go back into the office?

[GreenPepperRed]

Just that really. Have a job that can easily be done working from home. Company is now saying compulsory 3 days in the office. Has anyone just not gone in and carried on working from home? How did that turn out?

The majority of my department is insisting they are not going in. Can confirm they are serious because I went in to the office a couple days back and there was probably 10% of the people in.

Intrigued what my company will do. Fire us all?

Yes - I'm losing patience with the "sorry for the delay- covid" hold messages on ALL major companies phone lines these days

Yes, customer service has gone down the pan, both commercial companies and official departments. Either you're waiting in a phone queue for hours, or you have to wait for a call back to deal with your issue, and no they can't tell you when they will call, even though the website says otherwise, or it's all done online, or via text conversation on a mobile, and God forbid your problem is a little out of the ordinary and you need to speak to an actual person to explain it.

All this makes life especially hard for older people, and even more so when the issue is related to a bereavement and things are difficult enough.

"You’ve proved your job can be done from home

Have they?"

Yes, but there is a difference between wfh when everyone else is at home and wfh when colleagues are starting to go back in. In peak wfh time, for example, our finance dpt accepted email approval of invoices, now they require a signature and a printout. Soon visitors will be allowed back into the office, etc. etc.

If you can do your job WFH then I don’t see the need to go into the office. Given the environmental costs of unnecessary travel it seems sensible for people to WFH if they can do so effectively. Times have changed but some organisations don’t seem to have kept up it seems.

I spent 2 hours on hold on the phone the other day to try and sort out an issue caused by the company.

They have reduced the work hours on the phone to 4 hrs per day (10 till 2)

I have spent 6 hours i total waiting in various queues to try and sort the problem only to be informed by the recorded message that all the operatives are busy.

The emails that I have sent are in "Dated" queues and the letters that I have sent are unanswered.

So me being against WFH (in some circumstances) isn't about jealousy or other such bullshit.

Its about jobs not being done in a timely fashion that causes me (the client/customer) the least hassle and cost.

@catgirl1976

It’s interesting

We are back in 3 / 4 days a week so I’m looking for another job as there is no justifiable reason. My role can be down (and has been done) perfectly well remotely

A blanket “you must be back in the office x days a week” runs the risk of indirect sex discrimination imo. However that’s not a fight I can be arsed to have so I’ll just get another job and vote with my feet as will my colleagues

Whats your evidence for this considering that lots of people were office based before the pandemic, was it sex discrimination then?

Agree with Glowtastic. A lot gets done informally when one sees people in person. It's also much easier to pick up the organisational mood vi's a vi's a strategic decision making.

My team worked from home adequately. No face to face rtw checks, interviews on teams, no learning from "sitting next to nellie" and I think some issues around development because it's hard to judge leadership skills when people work from home. Also a lot more management time is taken up with formal whole team and sub team meetings which have to be very very regular.

I have found wfh often very intense and have had days where teams meetings have started at 8.30/9 and ended at 6/6.30 because nothing can be dealt with on an ad-hoc basis. I have never worked so hard in my life as in the last 2 years.

We are embracing hybrid. Minimum of 40/50% of time in the office. I am going in 4 days a week - I like the divide between home and work. It's interesting to see who wants to come in and who is resisting though.

In London it's a candidates market at present and some element of working from home is proving a good benefit.

Also further clarification - yes I've seen threads about an individual refusing to go back into the office. I'm talking about the scenario where 90% of the employees aren't coming in as told and how the company reacted. Have they put their foot down and those 90% faced consequences, or was the company forced to be more flexible with their office working policies?

@bellac11 “Whats your evidence for this considering that lots of people were office based before the pandemic, was it sex discrimination then?”

Yes

@FrippEnos

I spent 2 hours on hold on the phone the other day to try and sort out an issue caused by the company.

They have reduced the work hours on the phone to 4 hrs per day (10 till 2)

I have spent 6 hours i total waiting in various queues to try and sort the problem only to be informed by the recorded message that all the operatives are busy.

The emails that I have sent are in "Dated" queues and the letters that I have sent are unanswered.

So me being against WFH (in some circumstances) isn't about jealousy or other such bullshit.

Its about jobs not being done in a timely fashion that causes me (the client/customer) the least hassle and cost.

Totally agree, as a customer, service provision from companies has completely gone down the pan with people working from home. Some of that will be absenteeism due to illness obviously but not all.

I'm talking about the scenario where 90% of the employees aren't coming in as told and how the company reacted.

Has that actually happened though? In my experience this kind of thing is much more likely to be big talk that doesn't amount to anything.

If you want to actually change the terms of your contract, I suggest you approach it like an adult and enter into proper negotiations. Rather than refusing to turn up to your contracted workplace - that's very childish. If I were an employer I wouldn't be too sanguine about the long term future of employees who carried on like that.

I find it extremely important for the sake of young people that this new status quo is maintained. The old boomer mentality of working yourself to death

This is very naive. No one wants to work themselves to death but older people have more experience of trends in the economy and have seen high periods of unemployment due to UK lack of productivity. There are real tangible benefits of working in an office - even the most hi tech companies, developing software prefer people to work closely as it facilities ideas and higher quality. Younger staff lose the experience of being around senior staff, often picking up soft skills that they are not even aware of. Being in sn office creates a culture which just can't be replaced online.

Conversely work ethic has reduced significantly since wfh and to ignore it is foolish (for the economy, which will affect younger people) I've had supplier conversations that just wouldn't happen if they were in an open office. I've had a formal complaint upheld (and financial compensation) against another company because one of their staff acted so poorly which I know was as a direct result of no oversight. I've had projects delayed because the WFH people simply aren't completing tasks. I've called people just after 9am and know they are not long out of bed - a new graduate confirms this. Wakes at 8:30am and in pj bottoms but work top at 9am. They think they are getting away with it but they absolutely are not!

I don't like commuting, I want work life balance but I'm also a realist and know wfh can't continue.

It's an interesting question.

At the end of the day, it comes down to your contract, and any WFH agreement your workplace is willing to agree.

My work is taking a hybrid approach, with a ramp up to minimum 3 days a week in the office. There is no room for discussion here. If this doesn't work, this isn't the workplace for you. Everyone is replaceable.

I actually think it's really important to be back in the office. Work is so much more than tasks, and teams/zoom cannot replace the organic conversations/huddles/brain storming that happens in person.

I also have concerns for the junior members in my team over the pandemic WFH not being able to build their networks - being able to go for a walk and talk or coffee with heads of department and c-suite is so important at grad/entry/junior levels.

Has that actually happened though? In my experience this kind of thing is much more likely to be big talk that doesn't amount to anything.

At the moment it is. I spoke to one of the few people in the office and they said they'd been in every day and there were never more than around 20 people at any point when as I said there should be around 300.

@Guineapigssweak

Those refusing to return to the office need to be fired. They are taking the pi## !!! Using a pandemic to justify an easy working life probably sitting on their backside most of the day. When ever I've had to make important phone calls I have struggled to get an answer or wait in a queue for over an hour and this didn't happen before the pandemic. Totally unacceptable.

It's busy! If you're ringing a call centre they are the most monitored staff you will find My boss knows how many minutes I spend making a brew/in the toilet, when I am sending an email My screen is recorded, audio is recorded, I am at my desk ALL DAY and can't move unless it's for breaks and lunch Breaks and lunch are timed, to the second and we lose all our bonuses if we are late twice

We have people complaining they are waiting and it's because of WFH - it's not because I am the only one WFH! It's because we are short staffed and busier than ever

I mean I don't know how monitored you think we are but trust me, it's HEAVILY

Depends what your contract says. If it is for a fixed place of work they are well within their rights to dismiss you.

Oh and I do between 150-200 calls a day. I physically cannot answer any more so sorry if there's a queue, but it's not because we aren't working

Belladonna12
"Do people's contracts actually state where they will be working?"

@Gwenhwyfar
"Yes, I think mine says something like the office address or on the premises of the employer.
However, that didn't stop my employer sometimes going further than the law on wfh and mandating home working when it wasn't the law so if they can go against the contract, why can't an employee?

Our standard NHS contracts used to say something like "your assigned work base will be xxx but you may be required to work elsewhere according to the needs of the service" Its put in for many reasons, one of which is so that folk can't blanket refuse to go to meetings/seminars etc elsewhere.

If you want to actually change the terms of your contract, I suggest you approach it like an adult and enter into proper negotiations. Rather than refusing to turn up to your contracted workplace - that's very childish

IME it can also suggest that they're not very senior in the first place, since those who are tend to have a better grasp of business needs and often resist behaving like this - though of course it doesn't stop the former insisting that they really are indespensable

In a case like this though, since it turns out the company are already offshoring, I'd be very careful what I wished for

It also determines how expenses are treated. If you have a WFH contract then trips to the office have to be paid for.

The Covid requirements do not constitute a contractual change.

At the moment it is.

Well I'd expect the crackdown is imminent. I can't imagine a senior management putting up with people ignoring direct requests and the terms of their contract like that. If you are interested in a long term future with your company, you need to engage with them much more smartly than this.

A lot of rudeness slating me as an employee which is completely unnecessary...

I'm honestly envisioning a mass exodus of employees if they put their foot down and the company going down the shitter because of it. Will be interesting to watch. At this point most people I've spoken to there are looking for another job. I supposed we must all be awful employees and the company is perfect

WFH was an emergency measure. Most jobs require good collaboration and team work in my experience and this is not best done by working from home completely. Most employers are now working flexibly and it seems that yours are as well. I have had some staff who have refused to return in my team- one as they purchased a dog in lockdown and do not want anyone else looking after it. A number as they are managing childcare alongside working. We have taken disciplinary action and ultimately will dismiss. We pay well, so this will be a big loss to the people concerned, but most employers will rightly take a strong line.

I do sometimes wonder if I live in a parallel universe. I have had absolutely no issues whatsoever with customer service over the last two years. my team have had record-breaking years in terms of revenue, obviously we’re saving an absolute fortune when we don’t renew the massive office lease that we currently have … we are counting the days down until we can get rid of that, everybody’s got rid of desktops and they’ve been replaced with laptops which are far superior.

I genuinely don’t understand all the forelock tugging that goes on here, this is the first time in nearly 30 years that the workers hold all the cards and yet so many are trying to scaremonger the masses is into towing the line again. what is wrong with you ?

A lot of rudeness slating me as an employee which is completely unnecessary.

Not really.

Ignoring direct commands and the terms of your contract isn't a mature way of handling things. It won't come across well to anyone.

I'm honestly envisioning a mass exodus of employees if they put their foot down and the company going down the shitter because of it.

This sounds like a fantasy tbh. I get that it's fun to imagine, but you should probably think a bit harder about your game plan if this doesn't come to pass.

@GreenPepperRed

A lot of rudeness slating me as an employee which is completely unnecessary...

I'm honestly envisioning a mass exodus of employees if they put their foot down and the company going down the shitter because of it. Will be interesting to watch. At this point most people I've spoken to there are looking for another job. I supposed we must all be awful employees and the company is perfect

Nothing wrong with looking for a new job if your current one no longer suits you - that's normal, and if the company see a mass-exodus of excellent employees, they may well reconsider things.

But "refusing to go into the office" just seems really petulant and silly.