Has anyone refused to go back into the office?

[GreenPepperRed]

Just that really. Have a job that can easily be done working from home. Company is now saying compulsory 3 days in the office. Has anyone just not gone in and carried on working from home? How did that turn out?

The majority of my department is insisting they are not going in. Can confirm they are serious because I went in to the office a couple days back and there was probably 10% of the people in.

Intrigued what my company will do. Fire us all?

I started a new job early in the pandemic and have been working from home pretty much constantly ever since. And it has been hard for me and other new people. It feels quite "them and us" between people who worked together pre-pandemic and those who joined after, because of the bonds they'd formed. It has been much harder to learn the role. It has often been very lonely.

People talk a lot about their own productivity without thinking that the productivity, development and well-being of of colleagues is important for the organisation too. Mentoring and working as a team is usually implicitly part of most people's roles, as well as output.

I get that people established in their role and networks prefer working from home. But there is a downside and so some flexibility - from both sides - is needed I think.

280 staff not coming into the office when they're supposed to??

I'd imagine the senior staff will start to target your line managers about their inability to manage their staff correctly. I hope none of you like your line managers, since you've all decided to put them in this position.

@tootiredtospeak

I work for a large corporation who hasn't done this yet but sure they will eventually. They paid before the pandemic for an expensive office city centre it fits £2000 in and is being used by less than 10% of that. I appreciate its more convenient for some to work at home but others have just got too used to it. Our economy will falter if everyone does this. Also think of youngsters. If we as older generations make this the new way of working life all our children will pay for that as employers may give up and sell the offices ect. Do you really want young people to have to start their working career stuck at home with minimal real life interaction. I hate how much my pre teens do this now and would hate for this to be their future. Hybrid yes FT WFH no and definitely not for the bullshit reasons some use.

THIS! Imagine having a baby today and in 18 years from now they start their first office job only its not an office, it's them working from a desk in their bedroom with no social interactions or learning to work with others in a real setting!

@FloraPostIt

I started a new job early in the pandemic and have been working from home pretty much constantly ever since. And it has been hard for me and other new people. It feels quite "them and us" between people who worked together pre-pandemic and those who joined after, because of the bonds they'd formed. It has been much harder to learn the role. It has often been very lonely.

People talk a lot about their own productivity without thinking that the productivity, development and well-being of of colleagues is important for the organisation too. Mentoring and working as a team is usually implicitly part of most people's roles, as well as output.

I get that people established in their role and networks prefer working from home. But there is a downside and so some flexibility - from both sides - is needed I think.

I think this is an extremely valid point, and also very relevant for younger people entering the workforce needing to be around more experienced people to learn, not sat in their bedroom on MSTeams all day.

You may be able to do your job at home but your company needs to look long-term. Its a lot harder for new staff, especially for inexperienced new staff, to get to grips with a role and team if they are not around other people. Most of my learning in new roles was done informally just from being around people and hearing their discussions. That's also how I identified and created new projects.

For established staff with established work networks, working from home may work for you, but not for the long term development of the company.

Personally, as a new member of staff in a new role before lockdown, I now feel completely disconnected from the team, completely un-developed in my role and have lost all commitment and connection to this job and team that I loved for the first few months we were in the office. I'm looking for a new job now directly because of this ( my work are not returning to the office for more than one day a week).

I was chatting to my daughter just last weekend about this. She is the partner responsible for HR in her company. She said that she was supportive of people wanting to do a hybrid system, but there are simply some aspects of the job that haven’t been performed as well at home. She said she was trying to negotiate, but would reluctantly implement procedures if people simply refused. Ultimately employers have the right to demand that their workforce comply with their contracts. She said she intended to everything she could to avoid it getting that far, but would if necessary. Of course employees then have the right to resign and get other jobs. However, her industry is inundated with high quality applicants, so I don’t think it’s really the case the the employees hold all the cards.

280 staff not coming into the office when they're supposed to??

I'd imagine the senior staff will start to target your line managers about their inability to manage their staff correctly. I hope none of you like your line managers, since you've all decided to put them in this position.

Most of the line managers aren't going in either! Mine said to me they're not going to force me or my colleagues to come in and if the company starts enforcing it then they themselves be leaving the company going elsewhere. Seems to be a common narrative I'm hearing at the moment. The problem is no one likes working for the company anymore because of their previous actions which I'm not going to go into because it's probably too much of an outing. It's going to be an interesting few months.

One of the things I cant tolerate is people texting/watsapping asking people who are in the officer to 'just' do this or that.

In addition the ones that sit all morning on the phone to IT or their own internet provider saying 'oh I cant get on the system this morning, been on hold for hours with IT/BT whatever'

Come into the office then and get on with your work.

We've been back in the office since the moment we were allowed (we're not in the UK so rules have been slightly different) with a caveat that anyone who felt more comfortable WFH when 'if you can' guidance was in place, could. Only 2 staff members did.

Now that guidance has been lifted our workplace is the office and if we didn't come to the workplace I'm in no doubt we'd be sacked. The nature of our business requires talking to each other and across different teams all the time. We all work better in the office and were glad to get back.

The only thing that has changed is our senior management are now more open to us doing the occasional day from home, if you're spluttering with a cold but not actually too sick to work, or awaiting a delivery, or have stuff to do that is better with no disturbances. Before the pandemic this would have been frowned upon.

@catgirl1976

It’s interesting

We are back in 3 / 4 days a week so I’m looking for another job as there is no justifiable reason. My role can be down (and has been done) perfectly well remotely

A blanket “you must be back in the office x days a week” runs the risk of indirect sex discrimination imo. However that’s not a fight I can be arsed to have so I’ll just get another job and vote with my feet as will my colleagues

No it doesn't. You might like to try and wangle it as such but it really doesn't. If you're playing the childcare card, then childcare is both parents responsibility and if you're working from home you still need to have childcare anyway.

The only thing that has changed is our senior management are now more open to us doing the occasional day from home, if you're spluttering with a cold but not actually too sick to work, or awaiting a delivery, or have stuff to do that is better with no disturbances. Before the pandemic this would have been frowned upon

I think it's actually gone the other way. Previously in my office not coming in if you had a terrible cold or sickness/ diarrhoea was fine. Now, if you're at home, as you say, "not too sick to work"

Risky.

How long before companies work out that they can pay $2.44 an hour for a English speaking Filipino working at home to do the same job?

WFH also has a knock on effect for other economies, like transport and also local cafes that rely on lunch time traffic, shops, etc.

There is a bigger responsibility to consider, just because you want to be at home all day in your pyjamas.

@GreenPepperRed

280 staff not coming into the office when they're supposed to??

I'd imagine the senior staff will start to target your line managers about their inability to manage their staff correctly. I hope none of you like your line managers, since you've all decided to put them in this position.

Most of the line managers aren't going in either! Mine said to me they're not going to force me or my colleagues to come in and if the company starts enforcing it then they themselves be leaving the company going elsewhere. Seems to be a common narrative I'm hearing at the moment. The problem is no one likes working for the company anymore because of their previous actions which I'm not going to go into because it's probably too much of an outing. It's going to be an interesting few months.

I mean, if you're not happy, leave, but behaving like a bunch of toddlers who don't want to go to their rooms is ridiculous.

One of the things I cant tolerate is people texting/watsapping asking people who are in the officer to 'just' do this or that

I hate working from home. We always had a skeleton team at all levels in the office . I was one of them and was doing things way below my paygrade/ not part of my job to help out- but stuff that now. If they want things done, get in to the office

@Charlize43

Risky.

How long before companies work out that they can pay $2.44 an hour for a English speaking Filipino working at home to do the same job?

WFH also has a knock on effect for other economies, like transport and also local cafes that rely on lunch time traffic, shops, etc.

There is a bigger responsibility to consider, just because you want to be at home all day in your pyjamas.

If they can pay an english speaking Filipino to work at home then they would surely would do that anyway.

This was only meant to be a temporary thing.

However, my organisation decided to do up the offices while we were wfh, and there are not enough desks, etc, for everyone. The idea is for a hybrid working pattern, so I'm going in twice a week.

We now have lockers instead of dedicated desks, and we book a desk in advance online.

I like the convenience of wfh, but it's also good to be in the office sometimes for those impromptu discussions that can get so much done. I also have some nice colleagues, so it's been great catching up. It's not the same wfh. We have Teams, but online calls don't seem to lend themselves to casual calling for a quick discussion.

We have had one or two people hired during the pandemiic who live a long way away. Not sure how that's going to work.

@Charlize43

Risky.

How long before companies work out that they can pay $2.44 an hour for a English speaking Filipino working at home to do the same job?

WFH also has a knock on effect for other economies, like transport and also local cafes that rely on lunch time traffic, shops, etc.

There is a bigger responsibility to consider, just because you want to be at home all day in your pyjamas.

100% spot on. I can't be replaced by a $2.44 English speaking Filipino but several people in my office who don't want to come back could easily be.

@DottyHarmer

Yes, an IT expert is in demand. But not everyone is in this category. Thousands are desperate to work in the civil service (unlike the 80s and early 90 when they were struggling).

Regarding home office set-up, one employee wfh asked Dh for a full ergonomic assessment and special chair/desk etc in her house. Dh replied, “You’ve got a fully-assessed workstation waiting here in the office - you are welcome to use it.”

I like your husband’s style.

And yes, you are correct, loads of people want to work in the civil service or in government departments. For the pension, the benefits and the generous maternity pay, usually. You see loads of posts on MN from people asking advice on applications for civil service roles.

I’ve worked in the civil service. I got out as soon as I could! 60% of the people working there could be replaced in a heartbeat, probably with better candidates. So I don’t think that most of the civil service office refuseniks have a leg to stand on.

If they can pay an english speaking Filipino to work at home then they would surely would do that anyway

Nope- not until workers started insisting that they can do it just as well at home. I can think now of several roles in my office where that wouldn't have been considered before, but now? Possibly

People talk a lot about their own productivity without thinking that the productivity, development and well-being of of colleagues is important for the organisation too.

There's also the impact on other members of the household to consider. How many threads have there been -

DP wfh has taken over the living room and we all have to tiptoe round:

DP is always here and I never get any time to myself:

DP is on calls all day. He's really loud and it's so annoying:

(Plus the issues of confidentiality because as the person on the other end of the phone you don't know who might be overhearing.)

@KimikosNightmare If we are in fact too sick to work then it's still fine to take a genuine sick day (I did last week - when I called in I said I'd check emails later in the day and my MD categorically told me not to even think about it) but these days our company is far more open to people staying away with the type of mild cold symptoms they'd always have come in with before.

I was wfh the duration of the pandemic; we're now 2 days a week in the office. Don't like it, quit, my work are being very decent in giving us the 3 days wfh option (we can go in full time if we want) - my job can easily be done from home but we knew home working wasn't forever

I think people that are refusing point blank are idiots and if their jobs get outsourced to a cheaper country it will be fully deserved. If a company is offering hybrid working from home then they are very lucky to have that option. As someone who hasn't had that option and had to go to work throughout this whole thing it annoys me. They should be grateful they have been able to work from home when they could and grateful companies are now offering a compromise.

@KimikosNightmare

If they can pay an english speaking Filipino to work at home then they would surely would do that anyway

Nope- not until workers started insisting that they can do it just as well at home. I can think now of several roles in my office where that wouldn't have been considered before, but now? Possibly

So you are saying employers can't work out for themselves whether the job could be done at home (or a Filipino at home) even though their employees have been at home for two years and they will only know if employees "insist".

Lots of those complaining about going back right now will be braying to by the autumn when they realise they can take advantage of heating and lighting at work rather than suffer increased energy bills at home.

Also, work is a social.consteuxt and for those of us who need that working from home has been sound destroying.