Has anyone refused to go back into the office?

[GreenPepperRed]

Just that really. Have a job that can easily be done working from home. Company is now saying compulsory 3 days in the office. Has anyone just not gone in and carried on working from home? How did that turn out?

The majority of my department is insisting they are not going in. Can confirm they are serious because I went in to the office a couple days back and there was probably 10% of the people in.

Intrigued what my company will do. Fire us all?

@MabelsApron

The original poster who brought up parents doing the school run mentioned logging back on at night and checking whether parents are making up the hours....suggesting she's not talking about a customer facing pub or hospital environment but rather an environment much more like mine in which I can quite rightly point out don't start ruining flexibility your coworkers are now getting with negative assumptions and see how you can make things easier for these parents if it's causing the much of an issue.

I work in provision of services to vulnerable people. Work needs to be done during the day. I don’t know why me knowing what my colleagues are doing is making assumptions but you insisting that they’re definitely making up their hours isn’t, but I will continue to raise with management that they’re taking the piss.

What I will not be doing is making things even easier for them than they already are. What, getting to work 10 hours below their contracted hours every single week for full pay isn’t easy enough? Should I be working even more unpaid hours so that they can spend even more time at home playing with the kids? Give over.

Mabel....I shall keep my opinions about you to myself as I don't know you very well other than the impression you've portrayed of yourself in this thread.

One thing I will say is I feel really sorry for your colleagues and I honestly hope they know to point the finger at you when they start to wonder who's trying to get them in trouble with management on a suspicion....

Oh well I'm the office weirdo.

So much of this depends on your superiors.

Mine are fantastic.

We are doing WFH until we are all comfortable.

Given the tube strikes in London and awful weather, nobody is rushing back to the office.

I am perfectly ok with going to the office once every two weeks, once transport and weather is ok. We can then do team-oriented meetings and lunches. I find that to be an effective use of our time.

I will say though, that most reasonable people find it totally ridiculous to go into the office if you are going to end up doing the same stuff as at home.

Presenteeism needs to die. And the market will very likely punish companies who push for this.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

Perhaps you enjoyed getting oogled by men twice your age in an office environment where you can't leave or overhearing Karen and her latest diet fad because she hovers over your desk helping herself to treats someone brought in but I can tell you right now I honestly had no interest in any of that shit. I'm one of a very large percentage of introverts who see work as a place to do a job in exchange for money.

I don't know what sort of offices you've worked in but that's not my experience. I'm lucky that I work with two of my best friends and we try and arrange our office days so we're in together. And before you say anything, the work gets done!

I'm hardly an extrovert but the thought of spending the rest of my working life at the dining table, having to warn DH if I'm going on a call if he's in the shower (don't want to scare my colleagues!) and seeing no one other than DH, the car and the postman all day makes me want to give up my job and work in McDonalds.

I wouldn't say anything about this because I don't believe in infantilising adults, good for you that you enjoy going in and working with people you are close to.

Everyone is different, that 10 minutes you and your friend might spend doing chit chat is a 10 minutes I'd spend picking my kid up or playing with my dog.

Different strokes for different folks, just as long as we're not bitching about other people and trying to get them in trouble like a lot of women on this thread seem to want to do....who cares as long as the work gets done

Pre-Covid we had (non-contractual) flexibility to work from home at our managers' discretion, which worked well for me, though not for people with rotten managers. Now the policy is at least 40% in the office, on pre-agreed days, so we have less flexibility than before. The policy is due to be reviewed, so may change. I'm currently doing 20%. If anyone says anything I'll do my duty and increase but I don't think they will. My manager told me 'nobody is clock watching'.

My commute is 90 minutes. I get far less work done in the office than I do at home.

@gymbeen

Pre-Covid we had (non-contractual) flexibility to work from home at our managers' discretion, which worked well for me, though not for people with rotten managers. Now the policy is at least 40% in the office, on pre-agreed days, so we have less flexibility than before. The policy is due to be reviewed, so may change. I'm currently doing 20%. If anyone says anything I'll do my duty and increase but I don't think they will. My manager told me 'nobody is clock watching'.

My commute is 90 minutes. I get far less work done in the office than I do at home.

Thats anorher huge issue.

You lose about 120 - 180 mins of productive work time if you go to the office.

This is extremely relevant around peak work times like year end.

No company will last long if they keep pushing for people to go to the office around peak times. Their key people will simply find employmwnt somewhere else who offers flexibility.

This is happening right now.

@Notyourtypicalvirgo Feel free to feel sorry for people who are trying to get away with being paid to work 40 hours and only working 30 if that’s what makes you happy. If management takes action then they’ve only got themselves to blame.

[quote MabelsApron]@Notyourtypicalvirgo Feel free to feel sorry for people who are trying to get away with being paid to work 40 hours and only working 30 if that’s what makes you happy. If management takes action then they’ve only got themselves to blame.[/quote]
You can't prove that though Mabel, you just think that because they're doing the school run which is out of order. You have no clue if these parents work through their lunch, start earlier, catch up on the weekend or if they're logging on at midnight!

I'm surprised so many people are defending you on this thread because I'm willing to bet money they'd be kicking off if someone did this to them at work without reasonable cause.

Why not mention it to them directly if you have an issue with it and ask them when they are making up their hours and how they are currently performing in terms of work being done? People would respect you more for it rather than going over their heads and bitching about them to management (unless of course, you're too chicken for that 😂)

Honestly that's just snake behaviour

Different strokes for different folks, just as long as we're not bitching about other people and trying to get them in trouble like a lot of women on this thread seem to want to do....who cares as long as the work gets done

I care that the work gets done by the people it's supposed to, not other people picking up the slack. Why should some people get a free ride while others work extra hours for nothing?

And that's not a hypothetical situation for me BTW.

I'm surprised so many people are defending you on this thread because I'm willing to bet money they'd be kicking off if someone did this to them at work without reasonable cause

Yeah because we can see it for the piss take that it is.

No company will last long if they keep pushing for people to go to the office around peak times. Their key people will simply find employment somewhere else who offers flexibility.

Yes they will survive, not everyone wants to WFH full time. It may have been this thread or another I said it but again people have a very inflated sense of self worth. Pretty much everyone is replaceable and people will always be there to step into someone else's shoes.

Sadly no, but luckily they've accepted one day a week in the office. Not looking forward to getting up at 5am again.

@GirlInACountrySong

I thought WFH ended?

Lots of posts have become permanently hybrid now

@Whitefire

No company will last long if they keep pushing for people to go to the office around peak times. Their key people will simply find employment somewhere else who offers flexibility.

Yes they will survive, not everyone wants to WFH full time. It may have been this thread or another I said it but again people have a very inflated sense of self worth. Pretty much everyone is replaceable and people will always be there to step into someone else's shoes.

In fairness it depends on the role, we offer a really competitive salary, good pension contribution, sick pay, holiday allowance, enhanced maternity and paternity pay etc and good working conditions; and have had a vacant post for a while now. Same with a lot of organisations we work with, they're not the mumsnet favourite niche roles, but definitely require a certain level of experience and certain qualifications that if lowered would affect the work- they aren't easily replacable. Most places I know are going forward with a hybrid- 1 or 2 days in office minimum which seems a good balance.

Perhaps you enjoyed getting oogled by men twice your age in an office environment where you can't leave or overhearing Karen and her latest diet fad because she hovers over your desk helping herself to treats someone brought in but I can tell you right now I honestly had no interest in any of that shit. I'm one of a very large percentage of introverts who see work as a place to do a job in exchange for money

Very happy to say I've never worked in an office like this

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

Different strokes for different folks, just as long as we're not bitching about other people and trying to get them in trouble like a lot of women on this thread seem to want to do....who cares as long as the work gets done

I care that the work gets done by the people it's supposed to, not other people picking up the slack. Why should some people get a free ride while others work extra hours for nothing?

You don't know that though unless you're their manager, honestly you want to be watched like a child that's your problem

@Whitefire

I'm surprised so many people are defending you on this thread because I'm willing to bet money they'd be kicking off if someone did this to them at work without reasonable cause

Yeah because we can see it for the piss take that it is.

It's a piss take in your imagination because you clearly can't fathom someone can manage their time like an adult

@Whitefire

No company will last long if they keep pushing for people to go to the office around peak times. Their key people will simply find employment somewhere else who offers flexibility.

Yes they will survive, not everyone wants to WFH full time. It may have been this thread or another I said it but again people have a very inflated sense of self worth. Pretty much everyone is replaceable and people will always be there to step into someone else's shoes.

Actually Whitefire, you'd be shocked. Experience can be so niche these days that not everyone is easily replaceable.

A lot of employers are asking for people with years of experience in a specific industry, with specific software skills, specific coding languages, a specific education and perhaps trying to poach ex employees from a specific competitor that there's only a handful of people in the entire country that would fit that brief.

I know for a fact competitors started poaching Google engineers when Google initially said that they wouldn't allow working from home.

Thank god the market is flipping away from what you clearly knew from decades ago

Of course there are those that take the piss, and colleagues are well aware of those that do so. I'm not sure why you are at such pains to defend them. The work isn't being done, so they clearly are not managing their time.

So now I'm so old I am basing my opinion on experience decades ago but also young enough to work with men twice my age eyeing me up.

@Whitefire

Of course there are those that take the piss, and colleagues are well aware of those that do so. I'm not sure why you are at such pains to defend them. The work isn't being done, so they clearly are not managing their time.

Again are you their manager? Prove that they are not doing their work in numbers and THEN you have some justification. Saying it because you don't like that they have kids and home and you think they aren't working for two hours a day like Mabel then you're just a bit sad and I hope someone puts skunk in your draw 😂

(Go to town on that one guys, it's hilarious to watch)

In my very first comment on this thread, I said:

Management are aware but are buying into the cries of sex discrimination that inevitably happen whenever they try to enforce these people doing their jobs.

This is already being challenged by management, who do accept that people aren't doing their hours. That challenge is being met with fire, not on the basis that they are doing their hours, but on the basis that any disciplinary action is discriminatory.

It beggars belief why you're so determined to argue that you know my workplace situation better than I do, let alone over 15 bloody pages, but I'm starting to wonder if it isn't just hitting a nerve with you for some reason.

(And before you start - I'm on leave today, so am not posting this when I should be working.)

We don't all prove our work in numbers. In some work places it is obvious who isn't doing what they should.

@MabelsApron

In my very first comment on this thread, I said:

Management are aware but are buying into the cries of sex discrimination that inevitably happen whenever they try to enforce these people doing their jobs.

This is already being challenged by management, who do accept that people aren't doing their hours. That challenge is being met with fire, not on the basis that they are doing their hours, but on the basis that any disciplinary action is discriminatory.

It beggars belief why you're so determined to argue that you know my workplace situation better than I do, let alone over 15 bloody pages, but I'm starting to wonder if it isn't just hitting a nerve with you for some reason.

(And before you start - I'm on leave today, so am not posting this when I should be working.)

Go enforce it then detective Mabel, go force management to whip those pesky parents into shape.

Maybe they'll make you CEO and give you a seven figure salary?