Has anyone refused to go back into the office?

[GreenPepperRed]

Just that really. Have a job that can easily be done working from home. Company is now saying compulsory 3 days in the office. Has anyone just not gone in and carried on working from home? How did that turn out?

The majority of my department is insisting they are not going in. Can confirm they are serious because I went in to the office a couple days back and there was probably 10% of the people in.

Intrigued what my company will do. Fire us all?

@Chocomelon

I think it's cheeky to "refuse" to go into work and I think your employer should enforce working in the office if they want that. You don't get to decide you're working from home permanently because you prefer it.

This. You have a contact, and therefore if you don’t like it - leave.

On a separate note maybe the workplace ( the concept of what one is) will change moving forward but for now, most people have an employment contract, and would do well to remember this.

There are many reasons why an employer wants everyone back in some time. There are social reasons but also maybe an employer believes that their productivity isn’t what it was....
E.g. there are some wfh staff who really have not done their work whilst wfh over the last couple of years. (In my experience working for someone who employed 1000s ). Some have stopped paying nurseries/childcare during the holidays and have kids at home. Some have moved away to different parts of the country so have basically visited with their feet about wfh! Any employer could take issue with those things. All of which is taking the piss a bit when you have an office based job.
Maybe they are the ones who are making such a fuss about ‘going back.’

You can’t just do what you want. I’m a nurse so been in work from start maybe I should just say I’ll work from home too see how my boss likes that. This is work, not school people need to grow up. If folk have genuine reasons why coming back to the office is an issue they need to speak to their managers otherwise just go to work

@GreenPepperRed

Just that really. Have a job that can easily be done working from home. Company is now saying compulsory 3 days in the office. Has anyone just not gone in and carried on working from home? How did that turn out?

The majority of my department is insisting they are not going in. Can confirm they are serious because I went in to the office a couple days back and there was probably 10% of the people in.

Intrigued what my company will do. Fire us all?

Pretty sure an employment tribunal just found in favour of the employer in a similar case.

@Cakecakeandcake

Last week I tried to speak to my bank, on hold for 50 minutes, that was bad enough but when I eventually got through to the operator. There was kids crying, couldn’t hear the operator. Surely if working from home folk should have childcare in place? Why aren’t folk going back to the office anyway?

Yes - I'm losing patience with the "sorry for the delay- covid" hold messages on ALL major companies phone lines these days..... spoiler alert, anyone on the phones isn't going to get away with the (patent) decreased productivity for much longer. DVLA, I am particularly looking at you....but also South Western Railway, Shell Energy, National Savings and others....

Do what your employer asks or get a new job. The entitlement of some is just beyond the pale.

We’re back in one day every six weeks, and can attend in person meetings whenever we’d like or pop in to ‘hot-desk’ whenever. I have basically refused to do any in person meetings which don’t need to be in person and I don’t go in to hot-desk. No one cares.

I think some people who want to work from home subconsciously or deliberately underestimate the impact on their job. We've been able to do our job adequately for the last 2 years mainly WFH but it would have been far easier and better to be seeing each other and building solid working relationships, having the ad hoc conversations that often lead to surprising solutions.

When I was a school governor of a primary school we had a situation where a teacher put in a request to wfh. Their grand plan was that they would lesson plan and the TA would deliver the work and run the class in person. This was obviously before remote schooling, so they weren’t going to be appearing on screen. They got very angry and tried to get union involvement. Even the union laughed.

My place is bringing in hybrid working soon. I'm not looking forward to it for a number of reasons:

• I am much more productive at home, being able to get on with things without distractions, or worry about having to leave on time
• the majority of people I work with are in other sites, so it seems nonsensical to commute to an office to sit in MS Teams calls every day
• the school wrap-around care has changed since I was last in the office, with shorter hours and rigid pick-up times (no alternative childcare)
• I have a number of health issues (some diagnosed, some not) which mean I can better manage work/life/energy levels if I don't have a commute on top of my usual working day

I'm happy to attend face-to-face meetings where necessary, but not just for the sake of being back in the office.

@marieantoinehairnet

I think for me it's the demand that we got back a set amount of days. In reality a 3 day demand is the same as a 5 day, it's saying we have no respect for your needs, wishes.

It's also a cheek when you think, like the flick of a switch, you go from fully remote for 2 years to demands to be back.

Most people are very capable of being sensible and going in when the need is there, some weeks that might be 1 day, others it might be 5 dats. A prescriptive 3 dats is all about control.

I agree with this. There seems no real reason for a 3 days in the office, when it might be better to give employees discretion over it.

As you say some people may want or need to be office bound every day and others will need to only come in some days, possibly as little as one day a fortnight or whatever.

Surely businesses will be able to downsize and save a bit of money. If your office holds a thousand people but at its peak there will only ever be 500 (figures plucked from thin air) in the office then smaller place will do.

Being very prescriptive with the number of days in the office comes across as presenteeism and unlikely to keep your staff.

I have noticed my workplace has increased wages to new starters and has a huge drive for employees to recruit with hefty bonuses.
The bonus has increased from about £50 over the last several years to last week £800
Of course no one wants family and friends working there so the drive isnt working, but still the offer is pretty big comparatively.

@Florenz

WFH is ridiculous. If people aren't willing to commute to work, pay for childcare etc, they need to get jobs closer to their home and/or reconsider having children.

But why should they? Just go into office for sake of it makes no sense Technology has moved on and theres genuinely no need it some but not all cases I work longer hours, get more done and probably speak to my wider team more from home than i do in office with commute and office distractions

A blanket “you must be back in the office x days a week” runs the risk of indirect sex discrimination

How? WFH should have childcare in place in any case.

If you were previously office based, and you haven’t had a change to your contract, your employer can enforce the terms of your contract.

People don’t really seem to understand what permanent homeworking, as opposed to emergency homeworking during a pandemic, looks like.

My team, in the public sector, has been homeworking for over 30 years. I have been a member of that team for over ten years.

It doesn’t mean you spend all day, every day, at home,a no choose your own hours.

• We have a regular in person team meeting once a fortnight, and attend other regular meetings in our local offices (which can be up to 3 hours away from home, depending on where we choose to live)

• We have a regular office day once every four weeks or so where we can catch up with colleagues in other teams, have case discussions, etc

• We spend about one to two days a week travelling and visiting sites we are assessing

• We are expected to keep regular office hours when we are at home, which means being available for 7.5 hours a day, with core hours between 10am and 4pm

• We must have proof of childcare being in place for all families with younger children

• We have annual workstation assessments to ensure that occupational health requirements are met

• We have had to pay for high speed broadband to be installed and pay all our own bills, even though it’s not our choice to work from home

• We are fully accountable for our productivity, and managers are closely involved with our work and check in regularly

No roles in my organisation have zero time spent somewhere other than at home, even if the job is fully home based.

@catgirl1976

It’s interesting

We are back in 3 / 4 days a week so I’m looking for another job as there is no justifiable reason. My role can be down (and has been done) perfectly well remotely

A blanket “you must be back in the office x days a week” runs the risk of indirect sex discrimination imo. However that’s not a fight I can be arsed to have so I’ll just get another job and vote with my feet as will my colleagues

"A blanket “you must be back in the office x days a week” runs the risk of indirect sex discrimination imo"

why?

@Lilly11a

What I would say is those who say they can do their job completely from home , tend to need someone else in the office to do things to facilitate this .

I have one member of staff still insisting she can work as productively from home if only we put x y and z in place - x y and z will add 2/3 hours to other people's workload.

Exactly this. I wfh for eight months over the two big lockdowns (hated it personally). Worked brilliantly for me but not for my boss and colleague who had to do half my job in the office.

I hated what and

You’ve proved your job can be done from home

Have they?
It's true many claim this, but when it supports something that's wanted the old phrase "Well they would say that wouldn't they?" comes to mind
It may be so or it may not, but sometimes the view of the employer and that of the employee can differ, and not always because of "presenteeism"

Interesting that even a hybrid model's being deemed presenteeism now though, but then it was bound to happen

Problem is piss takers gravite to WHF so company needs at least hybrid . So they aren't singling anyone out .
A full WHF set a president whilst people only look at the advantages for themselves they don't look at the full picture and how it affects the company

I understand why many people like working from home but I do think the service the customer get is definitely poorer from many companies due to this, which isn’t fair as I am not paying a reduced cost for these services.
I get annoyed with people refusing to go back in but I sometimes am not sure whether it is just jealousy on my part as I have to go into work. However, I think being asked to only go in 3 days is a nice compromise and I am not sure why you feel it is unreasonable.

@Iamthewombat

People who say you have to suck it up or they'll fire you probably have jobs that can't be done from home and don't like it that yours can

Not going down without a fight, are you? Or without a few insults aimed at anybody holding a view different to yours.

Unfortunately for you, you can’t get around the fact that the employer has the power and can require you to work from an office location if that is what your contract says that you must do.

They only have the power if you let them. Massive labour shortages in many sectors means the employees have more power to negotiate new terms. Employers take a hard line at their peril.

@Truthlikeness

I think some people who want to work from home subconsciously or deliberately underestimate the impact on their job. We've been able to do our job adequately for the last 2 years mainly WFH but it would have been far easier and better to be seeing each other and building solid working relationships, having the ad hoc conversations that often lead to surprising solutions.

Agree with this, a lot of creativity, innovation and problem solving goes on in those ad hoc conversations between colleagues and stuff gets resolved more quickly. Having to have constant teams calls is draining and often little gets sorted aside from planning another meeting. Group ms teams calls are a nightmare as it's often hard to know when to speak so you can't get your point across. It's usually the higher paid entitled staff who advocate WFH whilst the lower paid support staff still have to go in and suffer the commute etc.

@gannett I'm really glad that was true for you, and I'm sure it's true for some of our people too. However most of our 20-somethings have been asking to come back into the office, and started to return as soon as they could, citing the strain of their living arrangements / isolation on their mental health as a reason. Neither they nor us are saying it's all or nothing.

So, I think we're actually in agreement that flexibility is key

@Belladonna12

Do people's contracts actually state where they will be working?

Yes, I think mine says something like the office address or on the premises of the employer. However, that didn't stop my employer sometimes going further than the law on wfh and mandating home working when it wasn't the law so if they can go against the contract, why can't an employee?

"- I am much more productive at home, being able to get on with things without distractions, or worry about having to leave on time"

I have just had a number of discussions with members of staff who are now back in the office full time.

They say they are "overwhelmed" with work, despite being "more productive at home".

The problem is they would work hard and deeply on one project with little office interaction and miss two others which people in the office would have to pick up. The reason they are overwhelmed now is they need to relearn how to work quickly on multiple projects and "get them done" in a shorter space of time.

@DottyHarmer

Yes, an IT expert is in demand. But not everyone is in this category. Thousands are desperate to work in the civil service (unlike the 80s and early 90 when they were struggling).

Regarding home office set-up, one employee wfh asked Dh for a full ergonomic assessment and special chair/desk etc in her house. Dh replied, “You’ve got a fully-assessed workstation waiting here in the office - you are welcome to use it.”

I think my company would say that too which is why I'm surprised that according to a post above they have to assess workstations if people do any work at home.

Whoah a lot of replies. I've only just checked this thread!

To clarify a few things. Before the pandemic we were in the office 5 days a week. It's a computer based job and we work mostly independently. We went fully remote when the pandemic hit. The company (seniors high up) are now saying compulsory 3 days a week. Our managers are saying do what you want and that they're not going to force us.

There's not a "big outrage" as such because our direct managers are being lax about it, but people just aren't bothering even though we're getting emails from high up saying we HAVE to go in. We have to scan into our office with an id card so they know who's in and who isn't.

I'm in London. And for the couple here that suggested my colleagues and I want to work from home to "slack". No. The london commute is horrendous and we work the same from home than in the office.

I'm just intrigued how this will work out that's all. The company has pissed a lot of people off during the pandemic with some of their actions. To those that have suggested to tread carefully because they can offshore for much cheaper, they're already doing this. There's people who have left already because of some of the stupid things the company have done during the pandemic and they've replaced them with cheaper contractors abroad. Morale is very low and I have a feeling people don't care if they get fired as we're in a competitive industry. So I'm just intrigued how this will pan out. The company now have hundreds of unhappy employees that are just not coming into the office even though they've been told to. Yes hundreds. I'm talking about seeing maybe 20 people in the office when I went in when there should be around 300.

Maybe they will get rid of us all and offshore all our work? Will be interesting to see their next move.