Has anyone refused to go back into the office?

[GreenPepperRed]

Just that really. Have a job that can easily be done working from home. Company is now saying compulsory 3 days in the office. Has anyone just not gone in and carried on working from home? How did that turn out?

The majority of my department is insisting they are not going in. Can confirm they are serious because I went in to the office a couple days back and there was probably 10% of the people in.

Intrigued what my company will do. Fire us all?

I think it’s interesting that there’s such a view on “find another job that will let you WFH full time” without any thoughts as to what this will look like longer-term.

There’s no data on it yet, so I’m only hypothesizing but two things I can think of straight away-

1. Full time WFH jobs in any industry are finite. If everyone who doesn’t want to work in a hybrid way leaves, do they really think everyone will be able to find a WFH job when everyone else who has left is competing for them now?
   Sure, there seems to be a bubble of them at the moment, but the majority of jobs are still office based, even a day or so a week.

2. The impact on salary. WFH jobs will drive down salaries. Especially if we see competition for WFH jobs as outlined in my first point.

As a manager, I’m interested to see what it’ll mean for my team. We’re moving to a hybrid office and we’re all going in on the same two days each week.

Everyone seems to be looking forward to it and welcome the mix, and chance to see each other. Our work is collaborative and, while we’ve worked well during lockdowns, it does make our jobs harder. We’re quite a social team so are already planning lunches and nights out.

However, there’s one person who I know will kick off. I inherited her when I took over the team and she’s quite difficult and absolutely took the piss while WFH.

If she wants to frustrate her employment contract by not coming to work, that’s perfectly fine with me.

Why do you think you can decide that you are going to work from home?

Your company pay you to do a job. Surely they decide where the work takes place not you.

My friend has the same attitude as op her workplace have asked that she returns a day or two a week at most. Her contract is not WFH at all.

I think she is being actually very difficult, part of her role includes teaching which was done over teams but her workplace want her to teach face to face.

@ThreeRingCircus

I'm not sure what you mean regarding tax status changes or occupational health having to make sure you have the correct office setup. If that hasn't had to change in the last two years while people have worked at home why would it need to change now?

I'm not sure on the tax question, other than companies have had to offer the working from home tax rebate at a cost to them but on the occ health point the Health and Safety Executive acknowledged that the pandemic was a temporary situation and suspended the requirement for DSE assessments (short of sending out information to employees, which we did.) They will eventually need to come back in though and employers have a duty in Health and Safety law to meet certain requirements, including assessing the safety and suitably of their employees workstations. If your employer hasn't done that ever before then they're likely in breach of the regulations.

That would depend on what the assessment requires surely.

@Thirkettle

Just quit and get a remote role.

I'm a software dev. Anyone who tries to enforce an office rule gets nothing more than a pile of resignations. In my industry no one's even trying unless they want to lose a whole team.

Ignore the bootlickers. You don't owe your employers anything and don't need to be 'grateful' for a job. They're paying you for your life. You have all the power.

Surely you realise that software devs are outliers, in terms of scarce talent, and as a group that as a whole is less sociably focussed.

Even if I did agree with office work, if I sacked my team for non-compliance, they would find a new job in a week and I would struggle for months if not years to replace them all.

Not the case for everyone, though, is it? My work could easily replace my whole team (I have been on the hiring side, I know how many good applicants we get per post) - meanwhile the people leaving would struggle to find similar work if their condition was never ever having to go into an office ever.

Personally I think the OP is a CF. The employer has already offered a compromise with hybrid working and it’s still not good enough.

I’ll be very curious to know how successful this campaign is. Personally I need my job and wage too much to try something like that on (plus I actually like going to the office ... most of the time).

There is a real shortage of labour in many high skilled sectors. I wanted a WFH job my employer wanted me back in the office full time. I found another job with a massive pay rise (due to shortage of labour) and it’s a WFH contract may have to go into the office once a month but my travel expenses will be covered. Just negotiate or find something that suits. I’m disabled WFH had transformed my life. Even a short commute and being in an office really used up the limited energy I have.

@Iamthewombat just to back up your comment about highly sought scarce skills. Friends DH is really high up in financial security services and has WFH for years. Hard to replace with those decades of experience. My friend that is kicking off is a professional and has a degree but she could be replaced very easily.

WFH has an impact on problem solving & creativity - online meetings do not offer the same kind of interaction as in person ones.

I have worked successfully with colleagues abroad that I have never met. You don't have to meet in person to problem solve or be creative.

@GoldenOmber

Even if I did agree with office work, if I sacked my team for non-compliance, they would find a new job in a week and I would struggle for months if not years to replace them all.

Not the case for everyone, though, is it? My work could easily replace my whole team (I have been on the hiring side, I know how many good applicants we get per post) - meanwhile the people leaving would struggle to find similar work if their condition was never ever having to go into an office ever.

I'm not saying it is. I think this question is impossible to answer because the situation is so different across industries.

If most of the office think they can do the work from home you should all be considering the real possibility that your jobs can be done from India or the Phillippines or Africa for a tiny fraction of the cost of the work being done by you guys in your pyjamas.

I'd be going back in if I were you.

I work part-time and it is in my contract that I can work from home as long as I spend one day a week in the office which suits me fine. My team has the same work pattern (all part-time, one day in office).

My boss tried to make noises about me spending more time in the office, a couple of weeks ago I said no and reminded her the terms of my contracts.

I have a long term health condition and this work pattern helps me manage it. Should she push this further I would make an official request for reasonable adjustments based on a long term disability/health issues and consider resigning and then sue for constructive dismissal. I feel that strongly about it.

We have a tiny office and it is impossible for everyone to fit in and social distance and most of my work can be done from home.

When I was recruited flexible working was mentioned as a company benefit so it would be very misleading for them to then try to bully people in.

I am very confident I could replace staff,appreciate that in some Industries that might not be the case
Some employees seem to think they are irreplaceable,that's not always the case
In fact often new staff are a positive thing

Yes, an IT expert is in demand. But not everyone is in this category. Thousands are desperate to work in the civil service (unlike the 80s and early 90 when they were struggling).

Regarding home office set-up, one employee wfh asked Dh for a full ergonomic assessment and special chair/desk etc in her house. Dh replied, “You’ve got a fully-assessed workstation waiting here in the office - you are welcome to use it.”

@couchparsnip

I work for a large government department and we have gone back to hybrid working with individual patterns based on each person's circumstances. If people live more than an hours commute away then they are being lenient at present and we only required to be in the office once a fortnight. I went in the other day and it was pointless. No one on my team was there so I didn’t get any fave to face contact with them - we are spread out across a large geographical area so not all of us have the same base office. I spent the day on my own processing cases on my laptop as usual and going to meetings over MS Teams. Except I had to travel for 3 hours to do it. It will have to change but at the moment there's no reason to go in except to tick a box to say you have. I can see why there's no appetite for it.

I see why the government departments are forcing it, they are being made to. All to help the economy and all that crap. I'm sorry, but that's their job to fix, not mine. I won't be spending any more than I currently do thanks to them doing fuck all to help with the rise in energy bills. Why should we help sort the mess they helped to create on the economy too? Not happening.

Like I say, they are just going to lose staff to this nonsense and that will be on their heads, not mine. I look out for me and my family, no one else. They don't have my best interests at heart, I certainly won't have theirs.

All the best op

When I was recruited flexible working was mentioned as a company benefit so it would be very misleading for them to then try to bully people in.

Flexible working could mean literally anything though. People need to concentrate on what's specifically outlined in their contract.

I have one member of staff still insisting she can work as productively from home if only we put x y and z in place - x y and z will add 2/3 hours to other people's workload

Though WFH can be an excellent thing, IME that's when it can all fall to bits - especially since the only response tends to be some flannel about "supporting each other" which in practice often turns out to be a very one-sided thing

It was predictable that someone would bring sex discrimination/childcare into it, and correct that a PP mentioned childcare should be in place when WFH. Trouble is, once it's granted, the "I can do the job perfectly well from home" may well turn into "I can work perfectly well with the DCs there" - something which is already happening in some cases

And after all OP isn't being asked to go back in all the time; she's been offered what sounds like a reasonable hybrid model, but apparently wants it all her own way

I’m never going back to working in an office. You’ve proved your job can be done from home, I’m not going back to satisfy my company owners vanity.
My old boss liked to see a full office, she’d come in the odd half day a week by taxi, but when she came in she liked to see all of us drones sitting there having commuted by train and tube for god knows how long.

@GirlInACountrySong

I thought WFH ended?

Well it depends on what work you do and the company you work for. For a lot of people whose jobs are computer based and they have managed to successfully WFH over the last couple of years, there is no office to go back to as companies have scaled physical buildings right back .

WFH is ridiculous. If people aren't willing to commute to work, pay for childcare etc, they need to get jobs closer to their home and/or reconsider having children.

@DottyHarmer

Yes, an IT expert is in demand. But not everyone is in this category. Thousands are desperate to work in the civil service (unlike the 80s and early 90 when they were struggling).

Regarding home office set-up, one employee wfh asked Dh for a full ergonomic assessment and special chair/desk etc in her house. Dh replied, “You’ve got a fully-assessed workstation waiting here in the office - you are welcome to use it.”

Conversely my company has been happy to provide ergonomically designed home working equipment for any employee who needs it. I guess that's the difference between a good company that looks out for its workers' physical/mental health, and one that doesn't.

@doublemonkey

If most of the office think they can do the work from home you should all be considering the real possibility that your jobs can be done from India or the Phillippines or Africa for a tiny fraction of the cost of the work being done by you guys in your pyjamas.

I'd be going back in if I were you.

I wondered when this would get thrown into the mix. The company I work for already offshored some jobs before WFH due to covid was a thing. What’s left in the U.K. is left on purpose because it doesn’t work overseas. If companies wanted to cut costs by moving jobs overseas they’d do it regardless of whether it meant being in an office or at home. If it can be done in an office in the U.K. then it can most likely be done in an office overseas.

@gannett
They have a fully functioning office with all the ergonomic stuff staying there waiting. Why do you think they have to spend money providing something for employees’ homes if WFH recommendation is not in power anymore.