Men should have the right to not want a baby

[user57639206]

NC as I've been shot down a few times in real life for having this opinion.

I find it bizarre that women can decide that they don't want a baby and opt for a termination (just to clarify, I completely agree with this. It's her right to choice) but when a man decides now isn't the right time, right partner or whatever the reason - he's labelled a arsehole, good for nothing or irresponsible.

Surely if a woman has the right to say "no, not right now/not for me" a man should have the same right? Without being labelled or judged!

I've seen it a few times in real life, be it from a one night stand or a not so serious relationship. The woman wants to keep the baby, the man says he doesn't (but doesn't suggest an abortion), and he's thrown under the bus.

I know there is a big difference in some sense because obviously, the woman goes through all the physical changes/trauma of having a baby - but when are men then taken to court for CA or have knives shoved in their backs for not wanting a baby?

AIBU?

Whilst I've previously on the thread said you can't force a woman to have an abortion and I believe that,i do think it's disingenuous to say when it comes to a man its a baby but if a woman has an abortion it's not getting rid of a baby it's just a "pregnancy" to try and sugar coat it.

@FrustratedTeddyLamp

Whilst I've previously on the thread said you can't force a woman to have an abortion and I believe that,i do think it's disingenuous to say when it comes to a man its a baby but if a woman has an abortion it's not getting rid of a baby it's just a "pregnancy" to try and sugar coat it.

So?

My point is if he doesn't want to have a child either at all, or right now, surely he should be allowed to walk away without a stigma? Just as a woman rightly can abort without stigma

Then there is a child in the world with one parent who doesn't give a shit.

For most decent human beings the rights of the child to a reasonable start in life trump the rights of the father to a consequence free shag. Personally I would want to see much greater stigma. One of my close friends (groomsmen at my wedding) abandoned his kids- when it became clear he wouldn't change his mind I never spoke to him again.

Sadly, the number of deadbeat parents in the world suggests a lot of people think as you do.

I agree with you OP.

I don't think MN realise how sneaky some women are in "trapping" men with pregnancies. I've seen it happen IRL. A colleague I used to work with actually punctured holes with a pin in her boyfriends condoms.

Sorry, pressed send too soon. It’s because it’s nicer (and more accurate scientifically) to refer to it as a pregnancy, rather than a baby. Are you suggesting we should guilt trip women?

@HTH1

I absolutely agree, why should the poor man have to pay for the child he created?

Same way as if someone crashes into the OP’s car and causes her huge financial loss, she wouldn’t dream of making them pay (hey, it was just an accident and they don’t want to be made to foot the bill).

@HTH1 👏🏼👏🏼😂

@user57639206

At what point did I say she should be forced to abort? Maybe re-read and engage your brain?

My point is if he doesn't want to have a child either at all, or right now, surely he should be allowed to walk away without a stigma? Just as a woman rightly can abort without stigma

Because that's not the same thing.

A man "walking away without stigma" from a continuing pregnancy means an actual baby is born and has been abandoned by the man responsible for creating it. Meaning the child suffers.

Whereas a woman terminating a pregnancy results in no baby, so the child doesn't suffer the negative consequences of having a deadbeat dad.

If men don't want a baby, then they need to not leave their sperm in a woman's vagina, which is the action which is the cause of all pregnancies.

@user57639206

I seriously want to clarify I am not saying a woman should be forced into anything. The complete opposite, there are a million and one reasons to abort or continue any pregnancy and each is so unique, so relative and completely down to the woman.

I'm just saying I think men should be able to walk away from an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy but everyone jumps down their throat.

Your argument is completely flawed because it ignores the complete biological inequality that exists, that can never be balanced.

Men can’t carry babies. This means they don’t get to make the choice about a pregnancy continuing, and they would do well to understand that.

Men should not get to walk away from an unwanted pregnancy because that is their child, that they made. They should be responsible at the bare minimum financially, for it the child’s upkeep. The woman should not bear that alone. Because they made that baby, whether they wanted to or not.

Your argument benefits men who want to want to use women as bouncy castles or entertain relationships with women who they don’t even like enough to see a future with. Men need to understand that when they consent to sex, and put their penis in a vagina- a baby might be made. That’s the risk they take, and the responsibility they bear biologically.

It isn’t fair- of course, but that’s how it is. More boys and men should keep this in mind before they have condomless sex with women from tinder who they have known for 5 minutes as having a child stops being their voice the moment they cum.

@radiocity

I agree with you OP.

I don't think MN realise how sneaky some women are in "trapping" men with pregnancies. I've seen it happen IRL. A colleague I used to work with actually punctured holes with a pin in her boyfriends condoms.

And she told you this? Why didn’t you tell her boyfriend?

That is clearly not what I’m saying.
The children were not brought up in the OP post it was about the man’s choice so don’t create something out of nothing, especially that’s not even being said.

Choice, not voice.

YABU - I think there should absolutely be a stigma.

Men do have that right, but they exercise it by not having sex if they don't want a baby.

I agree in part. I do think that men should have a choice to walk away (I mean, in reality they do). Mistakes happen and contraception fails. Being equipped and willing to have sex is, in reality, quite different to being equipped and willing to raise a child. Abortion, because of biology, only has an impact on women and for that reason it can only ever be a woman’s choice to continue or end a pregnancy.

People can also give up children for adoption. In the UK where women have access to abortion it is more of a case that children are removed, but in countries where abortion is difficult to obtain you do see much higher rates of children being voluntarily relinquished. You can only relinquish with the permission of both parents though, and if a woman doesn’t want to place a child for adoption (again, fully her right) then the only thing left to do for a man, unable and/or unwilling to be a father,
Is to just to walk away. I don’t personally judge men who choose to do that.

I do think there’s a difference between men who are clear from the outset that they don’t want the child, and men who just fuck off after years of parenting when the relationship breaks down.

@ChocolateMassacre

Children have the right to be financially supported by both their parents.

At the point at which the child exists, it's not about the mother's rights or the father's rights - it's about the child's rights.

I think this is what a lot of people are missing. The law has nothing to do with the idea that people have a right not to become a parent.

If there is a child, the parents are obligated to care for it. Backing away from it is sometimes possible but a huge deal. It comes down to what is the best interest of the child.

But before the child is born, it's not considered a person under the law, so the same obligations don't apply. Legally, the woman can do what she likes medically up to a certain point because it's her own medical care and body and she has no legal obligations to a non-person. That right is restricted as it becomes more like what we think of as a person.

None of it had bugger all to do with a right not to want to be a parent. If people don't want to be parents they should not have sex. The fact that abortion can be used by a women in this situation is not the reason for the law.

Question: why can’t men have the same right to choose whether the pregnancy proceeds?

Answer: because there is a clash of rights here with no compromise possible and, if the man were to have the say, this would be a massive human rights violation (woman forced into aborting her own child).

But what about the question of who pays? Answer: if a child is brought into this world, that child WILL cost money and it is the legal and moral responsibility of both adults who created the child to pay for his or her upkeep.

@user57639206

NC as I've been shot down a few times in real life for having this opinion.

I find it bizarre that women can decide that they don't want a baby and opt for a termination (just to clarify, I completely agree with this. It's her right to choice) but when a man decides now isn't the right time, right partner or whatever the reason - he's labelled a arsehole, good for nothing or irresponsible.

Surely if a woman has the right to say "no, not right now/not for me" a man should have the same right? Without being labelled or judged!

I've seen it a few times in real life, be it from a one night stand or a not so serious relationship. The woman wants to keep the baby, the man says he doesn't (but doesn't suggest an abortion), and he's thrown under the bus.

I know there is a big difference in some sense because obviously, the woman goes through all the physical changes/trauma of having a baby - but when are men then taken to court for CA or have knives shoved in their backs for not wanting a baby?

AIBU?

I agree with you, the only solution for men who don't want a child is abstention

There are 3 different stages here and at each one the choices and repercussions are very different.

Conception - both parties have a responsibility to prevent pregnancy if that’s not their aim. If either one doesn’t do that, they have to face the consequences. For men, those consequences skip to stage 3: birth. For women they have one more step to sort it out (pregnancy).

Pregnancy - now it’s only women who get a say because the unviable sack of cells is in their body. It’s too late for the men to have any say.

Birth - now there is a third person in the mix, and they also have rights and needs - to be supported whilst they can’t support themselves, and, arguably, to know their parents. That’s why men get a hard time - they are abandoning an actual living person, not removing a collection of unviable cells from their own body.

I also totally disagree that women can choose to abort or give up a child with no repercussions or stigma.

Well of course, once one exists, they have a right and are glad of their existence. However someone who never existed is better off than existing and being unwanted.

Two very different situations. It would be like asking if aborted babies are being unfairly treated because they would have preferred to exist regardless of being unwanted.

OP, your level of internalised misogyny is shocking.

People make mistakes and sometimes they have to take responsibility.

Listen to what you’re actually saying - a man can walk away from another human they created (accident, contraception fail, anything.. etc) with no stigma attached, because ‘they want to’ or ‘aren’t ready’ or whatever.

Do you really want the hill you die on to be the one where you help the poor men be able to walk away from the children they created..?

I personally don’t think men really need MORE help.

I'm just commenting. I just think it's stupid to separate a pregnancy that without any unforeseen issues would become a baby. And the baby after its born.

If you're intimating that I didn't add anything to the thread. I'd argue I did more than
"So"

@user57639206

At what point did I say she should be forced to abort? Maybe re-read and engage your brain?

My point is if he doesn't want to have a child either at all, or right now, surely he should be allowed to walk away without a stigma? Just as a woman rightly can abort without stigma

If he doesn’t want a child now or at all then he shouldn’t have sex. He can walk away from having sex without stigma. That is his right.

wonderwoman26

I thought you said a man should have the right to walk away from an accidental pregnancy as the result of a one night stand but should support the child if he was in a relationship with the mother. Is that not what your post said? I just wondered why some children are worth more than others.

YANBU

I think it’s absolutely fine for a man to say he doesn’t want a child and won’t be involved physically or financially.
Just like a women is saying that when she chooses to have an abortion.
A women can then decide whether she wants to carry on with the pregnancy or not.

However I think a man must sign something to say he’s giving up all responsibility and has no right to the child at all.
I do think he should be put on the BC for the child’s sake but not in relation to parental rights.

In my own experience (and many others that I’ve spoken to, read about on here etc) a man has said he doesn’t want a baby and doesn’t want anything to do with it = fine. But then a few years go by and all of a sudden he changes his mind and ‘it’s his child too’.

The opposite is true with men who say they will be there but then change their minds once the baby is here.

@StationaryMagpie

if a women gets pregnant by accident/contraception failure...etcand doesn't want it, she has 2 choices, abort, or carry to term and adopt out.

If a man gets a woman pregnant by accident, he is bound by the womans decision.

I think men should have the right to walk away, to sign over parental responsibility...etc if they can prove the condom was sabotaged/sexual assault...etc.

However, they also have the option to begin with, to not stick their penis in a fertile womans vagina, and make it zero chance of anything like that happening.

It comes down to being responsible for the bit of your biology that makes babies... and the only way a man can ensure his bit of biology isn't involved is not to get it anywhere near a womans vagina in the first place.

How many men are being sexually assaulted by women to produce babies and then extort them of money? 🙄

The most common scenario is men forgoing a condom and then they complain later when it results in pregnancy. These men are just selfish and lazy, don't want to use a condom because it "impacts" on their pleasure, then they want to walk out when a baby appears 9 months later.