Men should have the right to not want a baby

[user57639206]

NC as I've been shot down a few times in real life for having this opinion.

I find it bizarre that women can decide that they don't want a baby and opt for a termination (just to clarify, I completely agree with this. It's her right to choice) but when a man decides now isn't the right time, right partner or whatever the reason - he's labelled a arsehole, good for nothing or irresponsible.

Surely if a woman has the right to say "no, not right now/not for me" a man should have the same right? Without being labelled or judged!

I've seen it a few times in real life, be it from a one night stand or a not so serious relationship. The woman wants to keep the baby, the man says he doesn't (but doesn't suggest an abortion), and he's thrown under the bus.

I know there is a big difference in some sense because obviously, the woman goes through all the physical changes/trauma of having a baby - but when are men then taken to court for CA or have knives shoved in their backs for not wanting a baby?

AIBU?

An unwanted baby remains that and both are in the wrong in creating it in the first place.

If a woman wants a baby and a man doesn’t it isn’t an ‘unwanted baby’, or a ‘mistake’. It’s VERY telling that you think women are essentially vessels and men are the only ones with valid opinions.

To those who’ve said men should legally be able to sign their rights away - several of us have asked numerous times now how this would work practically - a fair question I think for such an extreme view that will have dire consequences on children. Why hasn’t anybody answered?

I wonder if those happy to plunge more kids into poverty because men’s wallets matter more, are the type to get all soppy on social media over families who can’t afford food or Christmas? Astonishing how people are ignorant to their own hypocrisy

[quote ILoveYou3000]@Rdsdadmum

I'll ask again, where do the rights of the children feature for you? Do you believe a man's right to walk away Scot-free is of higher importance than a child's right to be supported by both of their parents?[/quote]
Not sure if you've been seeing any of my other posts but I have said many times that if a man or a woman doesn't feel up to parenthood for any reason doesn't mean that the child's life is ruined. Is it an assumption to say that the child will never have a man in their life ever again, as if to say mum will stay on her own forever? There are some fantastic step parents out there that the child will benefit far more from than an in and out inconsistent mother or father. What's the old saying? Any man or woman can make a child but not everyone can be a mother or a father, that takes something different entirely. Is your interest in what's best for the child or is it to simply label men as scumbags? What's best for the best isn't always what your perspective thinks it is. Open your eyes and you might see things.

@Rdsdadmum

Wow, some incredibly extreme options you have presented there. Neither is the answer. I don't have all the answers, unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world and we never will. All I'm trying to say is that things aren't black and white as people are making out. I have friends who have been raised by step fathers and step mothers and have lived a perfectly happy life so just because a mother or a father doesn't step up to the plate doesn't mean that the child's life is ruined.

Those are the alternatives. If you think they are extreme that is your call.

If a man decides they don't want a child then unless you are a raving lunatic the woman has to have the final decision whether to give birth.

So really it comes down to where you think the responsibility falls when it comes to raising a child. It's not particularly controversial to suggest that both parents should play a part.

@sheildmaiden

If a man doesn't want a baby he needs to take full responsibility in stopping that from happening. It takes two to create it should take two prevent. Saying that though I'm a firm believer if he says he wants nothing to do with the child, he has to mean it and vanish, my eldest DC's dad decided when I was pregnant he wasn't ready to be a dad and wanted nothing to do with me or the baby. I said fine, I'm keeping my baby though. 16 years later he never returned, never attempted contact and I never asked him of anything. I never forced him to pay for something he didn't want. It was me and my DC as I respected his wishes. The past 16 years have been amazing. He made me a mother, I gave him a big loving family and a secure family home. He couldn't ask for more and he is a brilliant person, nailed his GCSE's, thriving on the course he loves at college, just been offered an apprenticeship to do with his course and works part time. I am so incredibly proud of him considering I had him at 16 myself.

100% agree with this, if he says he doesn't want to be involved than he has to mean it and disappear. What a beautiful story, thanks for sharing this and we'll done to you.

But not everyone has a stepparent. And that shouldn't be some get-out-of-jail-free-card anyway for men.

Mad respect for stepparents. Can't imagine anything more pathetic than a bio father letting another man raise and pay for his child, without contributing anything and letting it fall on someone else. Imagine another man caring more about your child than you, men need to find shames as a collective, because that's very embarrassing.

@grey12 apologies if you’ve answered this already , but what are these reversible vasectomies you talk about?

He will not even acknowledge the child. Surely this is not healthy for anyone?

What a prince among men. He got his shag and that's it? Nope. He needs to grow up and fork over the costs of having a child.

So a man should be allowed to walk away guilt free... but the woman has to have an invasive procedure, be in pain, and carry potential guilt / questions for the rest of her life? Yeah ok cool.

I don’t get the step parents comment? Not all children of single parents will get a step parent, I didn’t have one growing up (my mum was a single mum) , my kids don’t have one either, step parents aren’t a given and not really relevant to the conversation

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

They do have a choice... not to shag around carelessly.

That’s not always the case though

What if a married couple have decided not to have children yet but a condom breaks . The woman gets pregnant and quickly comes round to the idea but the man doesn’t ?

@Rdsdadmum

I feel there is alot of people here trying to defend women and their circumstances. We are all adults women knows what could happen just as much as a man when it comes to having sex, arguing the significance of what a woman has to deal with in comparison to a man is not a fair argument and by any means should be taken up with the creator and not us mortal men.

Women are defending their lived experiences, and yes a woman knows her responsibilities as much as a man, she knows by virtue of biology that if she has sex with a man then she may fall pregnant. She knows that if she doesn't want to be pregnant then she can - A) not have sex B) use contraception to reduce the risk, the more you use (hormonal contraception as well as a barrier method) the less the risk of pregnancy C) use the morning after pill if sex has occurred unprotected D) accept that all and any of the above except A can fail and pregnancy may still result. E) request an abortion within the legal parameters if pregnancy does occur.

Men know that by virtue of biology if they have sex with a woman then pregnancy may result, and by being the one who had sex with the woman they are the other half of the DNA and biological process that enabled this to happen. If they don't want to deal with that they can -
A) not have sex
B) use the methods of contraception available to them to prevent pregnancy.

As they aren't biologically impacted by the concequences of the sex then they don't have the options available to them after the pregnancy has occurred, they have options before the sex has occurred, like you so astutely say, the big man upstairs is responsible for that (or biology, depending on your beliefs) not women.

If men choose to have sex at all, not use contraception on their own behalf then they should be prepared to accept the concequences, not do it anyway and then want to be absolved of all responsibility.

When it comes to them using protection and it failing, then this is also true of women and for both is a small minority as long as the contraception is used correctly. Both wanted to have sex and not have a pregnancy as the result, both took precautions to prevent this, but must accept that no precaution is going to be an absolute guarantee. The woman becomes pregnant due to the action of both parties involved, and then faces either birth or an abortion, the man faces at the least knowing he is technically a father, and at the most being financially and/or morally responsible for that for at least the next 18 years.
Men already have the possibility of lower concequences from a joint act, and yet there are those who would seek to absolve them of that too - even though in society it already very much happens, that men walk away (and some do it again and again with different women) without any repercussions from their actions.

No unplanned pregnancy went away simply by a woman not wanting it to happen. Plenty do for men though, because the woman they had sex with either terminates the pregnancy or has the baby.

@battenburgHatday well if they were that adamant they should have looked into vasectomies or having tubes tied, duh.

@JudgeE

But not everyone has a stepparent. And that shouldn't be some get-out-of-jail-free-card anyway for men.

Mad respect for stepparents. Can't imagine anything more pathetic than a bio father letting another man raise and pay for his child, without contributing anything and letting it fall on someone else. Imagine another man caring more about your child than you, men need to find shames as a collective, because that's very embarrassing.

Who said it being about a get out jail free card? The forefront should be about whats best for the child and nothing more but you know you keep pushing your agenda. I wont be responding to you again, you're username says it all JudgeE and you clearly are! 👩‍🎓

How is shagging around and fucking off without paying a penny best for a child, exactly?

Rdsdadmum You're clearly so very open minded your brain feel out. Men are not victims, they don't need cheerleaders- there should be more stigma re men leaving.

Do not expect another man to pay your way, so yes it is a cop out. No answer as to children with no stepparent either.

I don't think saying men should be responsible is judgy pmsl. But of course, you're a man so only care about your wallet not the the seed you leave behind

@RedCandyApple

I don’t get the step parents comment? Not all children of single parents will get a step parent, I didn’t have one growing up (my mum was a single mum) , my kids don’t have one either, step parents aren’t a given and not really relevant to the conversation

Of course they're relevant, lots of kids have step parwnts. You're referencing your own personal experience which is not wrong its real to you but isn't the same for everyone. Why is that so hard to understand?

@JudgeE

Rdsdadmum You're clearly so very open minded your brain feel out. Men are not victims, they don't need cheerleaders- there should be more stigma re men leaving.

Do not expect another man to pay your way, so yes it is a cop out. No answer as to children with no stepparent either.

I don't think saying men should be responsible is judgy pmsl. But of course, you're a man so only care about your wallet not the the seed you leave behind

There you go judging again when you have no clue. I haven't missed a single payment with my eldest, I have her on a regular basis and still buy her stuff that she needs. I don't complain and I don't want any kudos for it either. I never once said men are victims, however there are victims on both sides of the fence and if you can't see that you are delusional.

@ButtercupOfFlorin

To those who’ve said men should legally be able to sign their rights away - several of us have asked numerous times now how this would work practically - a fair question I think for such an extreme view that will have dire consequences on children. Why hasn’t anybody answered?

I wonder if those happy to plunge more kids into poverty because men’s wallets matter more, are the type to get all soppy on social media over families who can’t afford food or Christmas? Astonishing how people are ignorant to their own hypocrisy

Or maybe we could take a step back from that to before conception and men and women should sign something when they become sexually active and start having sex that they understand the risks involved in doing so, use contraception correctly and if a pregnancy results then they are 50% liable for the costs involved alongside the other person.

I wonder how many people men would still be keen to shag about knowing that if pregnancy occurs, there's no easy get out clause.

Honestly, some of the posts here make it sound like pregnancy resulting from sex is some big secret held by women and men don't have any input into the situation at all. It's not like they walk down the street, trip and fall and land in some random woman's vagina and get her pregnant and then have to bear the cost of that for the next 18 years.

"And so a woman should just be able to walk away from the baby then?"

Yes, it's legal for a woman to leave a baby with its father or with social services and it does happen.
Nobody is forced to look after their child, only to contribute financially.

Of course they're relevant, lots of kids have step parwnts. You're referencing your own personal experience which is not wrong its real to you but isn't the same for everyone. Why is that so hard to understand?

No step parents aren’t relevant to a absent dad, your speaking as if they are a given, I imagine it’s quite hard to find someone to take on another mans kids and raise them. Lots of men aren’t willing to do that...

To those who’ve said men should legally be able to sign their rights away - several of us have asked numerous times now how this would work practically - a fair question I think for such an extreme view that will have dire consequences on children. Why hasn’t anybody answered?

I don’t get paid enough nor have enough knowledge of the law to work out the details, but I’d assume that there would be a given time where a man could go to go to court and register a pregnancy and declare no responsibility and no rights in future. The pregnant woman would be notified and that would be that.

It would rely on women telling men as soon as they knew they were pregnant and the difficulty would be in deciding what would be a fair amount of time into the pregnancy for this to have to be done by. It would not be a perfect solution, but it would go some way to addressing the inequality we have at the moment with rights to decide about becoming a parent.

@RedCandyApple

Of course they're relevant, lots of kids have step parwnts. You're referencing your own personal experience which is not wrong its real to you but isn't the same for everyone. Why is that so hard to understand?

No step parents aren’t relevant to a absent dad, your speaking as if they are a given, I imagine it’s quite hard to find someone to take on another mans kids and raise them. Lots of men aren’t willing to do that...

Yes they are, I have a friend whose dad wasn't there but had a step father, he couldn't give a shit about his real dad but loves his step father to bits. Don't get too hung up on bio, kids just want to be loved. I understand it must be infuriating to have your life turned upside down because of a child while the one that helped you make it swans off doing his own thing I totally get that but again it shouldn't be about that ultimately if the child is happy secure and loved what else matters?

I think it can be tough depending on your age group, at my age trying to find someone who doesn't have kids is where it becomes difficult but they're are people out there of course there is you just haven't found it yet.

arguing the significance of what a woman has to deal with in comparison to a man is not a fair argument and by any means should be taken up with the creator and not us mortal men

If you think spelling out the risks that women go through isn't fair and should be taken up with god then why can't you accept that men also need to take what they perceive as unfairness that they cannot have an abortion, up with god?

Rds, you said yourself your friend doesn't give a shit about his dad. That's the kind of man you're defending here, for goodness sake.

Paying a bit of money to the mother, maybe seeing your child once a month is not a big ask. I'm genuine mind blown at how you can not judge someone so useless.

Good on his stepdad, bio dad should still be helping out not relying on another man to be a father to his child.