Men should have the right to not want a baby

[user57639206]

NC as I've been shot down a few times in real life for having this opinion.

I find it bizarre that women can decide that they don't want a baby and opt for a termination (just to clarify, I completely agree with this. It's her right to choice) but when a man decides now isn't the right time, right partner or whatever the reason - he's labelled a arsehole, good for nothing or irresponsible.

Surely if a woman has the right to say "no, not right now/not for me" a man should have the same right? Without being labelled or judged!

I've seen it a few times in real life, be it from a one night stand or a not so serious relationship. The woman wants to keep the baby, the man says he doesn't (but doesn't suggest an abortion), and he's thrown under the bus.

I know there is a big difference in some sense because obviously, the woman goes through all the physical changes/trauma of having a baby - but when are men then taken to court for CA or have knives shoved in their backs for not wanting a baby?

AIBU?

@Rdsdadmum

My partner fell pregnant while she had the implant, so precautions were took but pregnancy still occurred - who's to blame here?

There are plenty of mothers out there who have left their child from birth and child has been raised by dad. I wouldn't be soo quick to pont the finger and judge these people, there are lots of different reasons and scenarios as to why this might happen. Perhaps abortion was too hard for that person didn't want to stop a life but wasn't ready for motherhood and knew that would be worse for the child. Should this person be labeled a dead beat or an arsehole? I don't believe so, so why should it be any different for a man?

Perhaps people are stuck in the past and believe that all dads are deadbeats because their old man wasn't around (mine wasn't) but that just isn't the case anymore. Times have changed but when it comes to fathers and their rights this has not changed very much at all and as fathers we are very much at the mercy of our baby mothers for contact and a general support network that should run both ways.

Women deliberately get pregnant to trap men (puncturing condoms, not taking their pill[this happened to me].) are the men who smelt a rat and moved on arseholes aswell?

I'm a father of two and am a massive part of my children's lives, however I don't judge people who aren't. My father was never around but I feel more fortunate that some of my friends whose father was around but awful because they didn't want to be there.

It's too easy to point and judge when you're stuck in your own little world without realising that there are soo many different scenarios to consider.

At the end of the day it should be a level playing field for both men and women, men have the choice to be there or not and women have the choice to keep or get rid, I don't feel anyone is in the wrong it balls down to what you want out of life and just because you had sex which everyone does shouldn't leave you at the mercy of someone

Once the kid is born it stops being about what is a level playing field.

The fact is, if a man has sex with a woman - regardless of precautions - there is a chance a child is the end result. That child needs looking after.

Maybe it isn't fair, but tough shit, frankly.

I feel there is alot of people here trying to defend women and their circumstances. We are all adults women knows what could happen just as much as a man when it comes to having sex, arguing the significance of what a woman has to deal with in comparison to a man is not a fair argument and by any means should be taken up with the creator and not us mortal men.

@BobLep0nge Why is a woman in the position of being pregnant with a child she didn't want in the fist place? Why is she having sex if she doesn't want to get pregnant, or why has she not been sterilised? If we are saying all this for men who don't want kids we should hold women to the same standards. A woman also has far more options she could be on the pill and ask the guy to wear a condom and if he refuses keep her legs closed. It's really quite simple, I've never had an unwanted pregnancy yet.

@Rdsdadmum

I feel there is alot of people here trying to defend women and their circumstances. We are all adults women knows what could happen just as much as a man when it comes to having sex, arguing the significance of what a woman has to deal with in comparison to a man is not a fair argument and by any means should be taken up with the creator and not us mortal men.

Yes, women do know as much as men, but the key difference here is that the woman has the option to have an abortion if they do not want the child. They have a get-out clause that - unless you think men should be able to force women to have abortions - the man doesn't have.

It's not necessarily "fair", but it's the reality of the situation.

[quote JudgeE]@Rdsdadmum

You 'don't judge' men who aren't involved (deadbeats, then) but insist all women are out here poking holes in condoms? Or at least significantly more of these women than just plain old useless men?

Sabotaging contraception is sexual assault imo, but if you're using this as a blanket argument against men paying maintenance, this is very stupid. Like banning all abortions because some people misuse it (like for sec selection). Not really fair, is it.

[/quote]
I don't judge anyone, man or woman who have decided that parenthood isn't for them because forcing the issue can be a lot worse than having a step father or a step mother. I never once said all women or all men, I said there a people who do these things.

The aim of my post was to simply raise awareness of the fact that we all need to have the understanding that there are soo many different scenarios out there that it's massively unfair to point the finger and judge everyone by what you see from own personal perspective. Would you say that was fair?

I think it would be easier if all men and women remained virgins until at least 25ish (when our brains fully mature) Perhaps we could fit some kind of chastity device to both sexes which could only be removed when they they are in a long term loving relationship? And they are able to financially support themselves and any possible children.

well, @Rdsdadmum, they don't have to be happy about the pregnancy but their needs are secondary once the baby is born. Unless they were tricked (sexual assault), or similar, I would judge such a man.

I think the problem is ignoring the child and acting like they don't exist, as a man, you have a duty if you make a child. Any man who disagrees wasn't raised properly or didn't have a father themselves, so thinks it's normal to just not see or even contribute towards his child.

Grown man = responsibility. I don't like paying council tax but it's something I have to do.

Once the kid is born it stops being about what is a level playing field.

The fact is, if a man has sex with a woman - regardless of precautions - there is a chance a child is the end result. That child needs looking after.

Exactly.
Maybe it isn't fair, but tough shit, frankly

Men do have that right. They can not have sex. They do not get to choose what happens to the woman’s body.

If they want more than that then they can fund or otherwise help work towards a male contraceptive pill. It would solve a lot of problems. Have you seen many men clamouring for that? Seen any public campaigns? In fact wasn’t one developed, but naturally it had side effects like the female ones do, and naturally men can’t be expected to put up with that.

The truth is men want sex with no responsibility and the capability to offload all of that to women. They want to be able to blame women for everything. They can fottfsof - without fucks forever - with that one.

Anybody spare a thought for the men who have helped conceive a baby, wanted the baby but woman has aborted. I suppose men have to just "deal with that" aswell? Or you know its not fair but that's the reality. We all know that's the reality ut it doesn't mean it gives people the right to go round pointing the finger at people for their choices or decisions. The world we live in is full of hard decisions or scenarios, it's about time we started showing more empathy and less judgement to things we can't possibly understand. People tend to make their opinions about certain things based on their own experiences, get on the moral high ground and begin to shove it down peoples throats without realising there are soo many different scenarios out there where no two stories are quite the same.

Women have to deal with reality in the shape of the porn industry, rape culture and the patriarchy in general - all the economic arrangements which mean women do so much work men can ignore for free, while men walk off with the lucrative positions. Men who cry about reality get no sympathy from me.

@ParsleySageRosemary

Women have to deal with reality in the shape of the porn industry, rape culture and the patriarchy in general - all the economic arrangements which mean women do so much work men can ignore for free, while men walk off with the lucrative positions. Men who cry about reality get no sympathy from me.

I feel for any human being who has had to endure anything unpleasant in life. Shouldn't be about men vs woman but it looks like that's the case with you. Perhaps you have your reasons for that but please stop pushing that onto other people. Show empathy and understanding for others man or woman, we are all human beings and we all have feelings at the end of the day.

@Rdsdadmum

Anybody spare a thought for the men who have helped conceive a baby, wanted the baby but woman has aborted. I suppose men have to just "deal with that" aswell? Or you know its not fair but that's the reality. We all know that's the reality ut it doesn't mean it gives people the right to go round pointing the finger at people for their choices or decisions. The world we live in is full of hard decisions or scenarios, it's about time we started showing more empathy and less judgement to things we can't possibly understand. People tend to make their opinions about certain things based on their own experiences, get on the moral high ground and begin to shove it down peoples throats without realising there are soo many different scenarios out there where no two stories are quite the same.

Of course if a woman aborts a child against the wishes of the man that's a shit situation, nobody would claim otherwise.

It's all very well going on about fairness and rights, but the fact is, is that it's the woman who gets pregnant. It's her body and her choice ultimately whether to carry on with a pregnancy and if she does, the fact is that the child is the product of both a man and a woman and that kid deserves support from both of them. It's not always fair but
what is the alternative? Which of the 2 options do you think are acceptable:

1. Men can happily fuck around all they like bearing no responsibility for any children they concieve.

2. Men can happily force women to abort any child they don't feel like supporting.

?

See my post above for the legal reasons you are allowed to have an abortion. Nowhere does it say because you don’t want a baby.

In practice doctors seldom question why you want to access an abortion. It’s not something women have to justify or fight for. The NHS requires framework for all procedures, that’s why you’ve posted the list

@Rdsdadmum

I'll ask again, where do the rights of the children feature for you? Do you believe a man's right to walk away Scot-free is of higher importance than a child's right to be supported by both of their parents?

@Emilyaparis

I find it so bizarre that women on here think it's acceptable to dictate what a man does with his body i.e. get a vasectomy, but think it's outright appalling if a woman is told what to do with her body i.e. get an abortion.

Absolute hypocrites!!

Except literally no one has ‘dictated’ this. We’ve simply said if they are going to go down the route of sex and taking even a 3% chance of conceiving a child, they can’t moan and hen sex leads to pregnancy. Surely it’s not THAT surprising?!

Utterly idiotic argument - won't someone think of the poor menzzzz 🥱🙄🤮

@vivainsomnia

Indeed. Men get such a beating for not being responsible for preventing pregnancy.

Yet there's been over 210,000 abortions in the UK and Wales in 2020, the highest e era recorded number. This coat over £96 million to the nhs.

So how about focusing on how women should also take responsibility for contraception and stop costing the tax payers so much!

I have so much second hand embarrassment for you right now in that you think women get pregnant on their own.

It may shock you to find that in many, many cases, men are also in favour of a pregnancy being aborted. But yet it’s wOMeN cOStInG tHE NHs

If you’re bothered about taxpayers money, get mad at the £4billion men owe to their children in child maintenance that is crippling the public body that is the CMS

@vivainsomnia

Basically the man's 'right' to a consequence free shag is quite obviously less important than women's rights to their own bodies and children's rights to be supported. Tough Tough indeed....how about making any women pay for their own abortions?

It’s the man’s abortion too, just happens to be growing in her body.

I am honestly dying of mortification for you right now

Wow, some incredibly extreme options you have presented there. Neither is the answer. I don't have all the answers, unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world and we never will. All I'm trying to say is that things aren't black and white as people are making out. I have friends who have been raised by step fathers and step mothers and have lived a perfectly happy life so just because a mother or a father doesn't step up to the plate doesn't mean that the child's life is ruined.

@wanttomarryamillionaire

While i agree that a man shouldn't be able to force a woman into an abortion she doesn't want or even to go through with a pregnancy she doesn't want. I do believe that if he has taken reasonable contraceptive steps and she still falls pregnant he should be able to legally remove himself from and responsibility financial or otherwise if she chooses to go ahead with a pregnancy he doesn't want.

Ok so riddle me this - how does he prove he took ‘reasonable contraceptive steps’? Are we taking his word for it?

I would argue that having sex at all is not taking reasonable contraceptive steps but there you go

@Rdsdadmum

Wow, some incredibly extreme options you have presented there. Neither is the answer. I don't have all the answers, unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world and we never will. All I'm trying to say is that things aren't black and white as people are making out. I have friends who have been raised by step fathers and step mothers and have lived a perfectly happy life so just because a mother or a father doesn't step up to the plate doesn't mean that the child's life is ruined.

This has nothing to do with stepparents. Also stepparents aren't a given- men should be responsible. I mean, saying child support is necessary shouldn't be an extreme opinion.

@MorningStarling

Women should have the final decision as to whether to abort the baby, but men should have the right to absolve themselves of any responsibility for it.

So if the limit for an abortion is 24 weeks, men should be obliged to declare whether they support the pregnancy by week 23 (assuming woman hasn't already aborted). If they don't support it, the woman can still choose to have the baby, but knowing they won't be entitled to any support or money from the father.

It's more complicated if the man wants the baby but the woman doesn't, I guess the fairest way to deal with this would be to establish a tariff system whereby the man has to pay the woman a certain amount for her to keep the baby (depending on the risk to the mother).

So what happens when a man married to his wife, trying for a baby decides to bolt at 23 weeks because of a midlife crisis/new woman/cold feet - she either has to raise a baby alone or abort a viable pregnancy? Does that seem ok, really?

And paying women to have babies - WTAF!!

Welcome to Gilead?

Anybody spare a thought for the men who have helped conceive a baby, wanted the baby but woman has aborted.

Yes, and hopefully they understood why she didn’t want to go through with carrying a baby to full term and giving birth. The effects it would have on her physically, mentally, emotionally, and financially. She would bear the brunt of most of it including risking her life to bring a baby she didn’t want into the world.

Are these men willing to pay to fix the possible injuries she could endure trying to bring said baby into the world? What if she is injured to the point that she cannot work? Will they be willing to pay for her and the baby or would it be I only care about the baby? What if she dies, how do they explain that to her parents who knew she didn’t want a baby in the first place? What if he changes his mind when it’s more difficult or too late for her to abort?

I can spare a thought for them and think some men would be amazing fathers, but the cost to a woman is too high to think she should carry because of his want to be a father against her wishes.

Until science has the means to safely move unborn offspring from unwilling mother to willing father and he is able to grow and carry it successfully, it is something men will have to accept.

If a man doesn't want a baby he needs to take full responsibility in stopping that from happening. It takes two to create it should take two prevent.
Saying that though I'm a firm believer if he says he wants nothing to do with the child, he has to mean it and vanish, my eldest DC's dad decided when I was pregnant he wasn't ready to be a dad and wanted nothing to do with me or the baby. I said fine, I'm keeping my baby though. 16 years later he never returned, never attempted contact and I never asked him of anything. I never forced him to pay for something he didn't want. It was me and my DC as I respected his wishes. The past 16 years have been amazing. He made me a mother, I gave him a big loving family and a secure family home. He couldn't ask for more and he is a brilliant person, nailed his GCSE's, thriving on the course he loves at college, just been offered an apprenticeship to do with his course and works part time. I am so incredibly proud of him considering I had him at 16 myself.