Men should have the right to not want a baby

[user57639206]

NC as I've been shot down a few times in real life for having this opinion.

I find it bizarre that women can decide that they don't want a baby and opt for a termination (just to clarify, I completely agree with this. It's her right to choice) but when a man decides now isn't the right time, right partner or whatever the reason - he's labelled a arsehole, good for nothing or irresponsible.

Surely if a woman has the right to say "no, not right now/not for me" a man should have the same right? Without being labelled or judged!

I've seen it a few times in real life, be it from a one night stand or a not so serious relationship. The woman wants to keep the baby, the man says he doesn't (but doesn't suggest an abortion), and he's thrown under the bus.

I know there is a big difference in some sense because obviously, the woman goes through all the physical changes/trauma of having a baby - but when are men then taken to court for CA or have knives shoved in their backs for not wanting a baby?

AIBU?

[quote wanttomarryamillionaire]@ChocolateMassacre well doesn't that make a woman completely irresponsible if she chooses to keep a child that is not wanted by the father and will need to be funded by the tax payer? Thats on the mother who made that decision not the man who was clear with his intentions. [/quote]
Regardless of the mother's irresponsibility or change in life circumstances, the child still needs to be paid for. It's unclear why the taxpayer should be doing that, rather than the biological father.

Where you're wrong is with your focus on the mother's rights/conduct.

The mother could be the most feckless, irresponsible person in the world - it does not affect the child's needs and rights. The child still deserves financial support.

The child's rights are independent from the mother's rights.

@Nailsbythesea

Engage your brain you can’t force a woman to do anything with her body she does want.

He doesn’t want a baby wear a condom and double up with something else - or better still don’t have sex until you are prepared to take responsibility as nothing is 100%

But you wouldn't say to a woman considering having an abortion 'you shouldn't have had sex'.

@Lubeyboobyalt

men do have the right not to want a baby

available in the form of abstinence, correct and vigilant condom use and/or a vasectomy

But mistakes do happen, contraceptives do sometimes fail! So what then?

While i agree that a man shouldn't be able to force a woman into an abortion she doesn't want or even to go through with a pregnancy she doesn't want. I do believe that if he has taken reasonable contraceptive steps and she still falls pregnant he should be able to legally remove himself from and responsibility financial or otherwise if she chooses to go ahead with a pregnancy he doesn't want.

The ability to think things through isn't a strong point here, i feel.

you are thinking purely about the man's wants here. I mean, it's hard not to since that's how the world is set up. Men get what they want and the rest of us are here to facilitate it.

Work through it. How does this work in reality? if they both are on contraception, the man washes his hands of everything. And the woman?

Because abortion and abandoning a child are not the same thing.

@cuno

Also once a baby is born a woman cannot walk away without stigma either.

She chose to go through with the pregnancy though and have the child.

Once the sperm leaves though the Male has no further say really but he still has to support the child legally.

@Brefugee

While i agree that a man shouldn't be able to force a woman into an abortion she doesn't want or even to go through with a pregnancy she doesn't want. I do believe that if he has taken reasonable contraceptive steps and she still falls pregnant he should be able to legally remove himself from and responsibility financial or otherwise if she chooses to go ahead with a pregnancy he doesn't want.

The ability to think things through isn't a strong point here, i feel.

you are thinking purely about the man's wants here. I mean, it's hard not to since that's how the world is set up. Men get what they want and the rest of us are here to facilitate it.

Work through it. How does this work in reality? if they both are on contraception, the man washes his hands of everything. And the woman?

It also ignores that there is a living, breathing child who has independent rights of their own and who needs to be supported.

No one has explained why it is acceptable to override the rights of the child in these circumstances.

Instead, it has been suggested that the 'sins' of the parent (in this case the mother) should be visited on the child.

I don’t know why you think men do walk away without stigma? Why do you also think women abort or have terminations without any stigma too?

Your one sided, if you believe it’s shit for men but all roses for women you are sorely mistaken

Regardless of the mother's irresponsibility or change in life circumstances, the child still needs to be paid for. It's unclear why the taxpayer should be doing that, rather than the biological father.

The tax payer still pays as they will be entitled to claim benefits regardless, whether the father pays or not. Cm doesn’t affect benefit payments.

No one has explained why it is acceptable to override the rights of the child in these circumstances.

Agree.

Instead, it has been suggested that the 'sins' of the parent (in this case the mother) should be visited on the child.

well, this has worked for many centuries. Why change a winning formula, right?

The tax payer still pays as they will be entitled to claim benefits regardless, whether the father pays or not. Cm doesn’t affect benefit payments

If the father actually paid a decent amount for his child the mother might not even have to claim any benefits.

@wanttomarryamillionaire

While i agree that a man shouldn't be able to force a woman into an abortion she doesn't want or even to go through with a pregnancy she doesn't want. I do believe that if he has taken reasonable contraceptive steps and she still falls pregnant he should be able to legally remove himself from and responsibility financial or otherwise if she chooses to go ahead with a pregnancy he doesn't want.

Nope.

Because the child still needs and deserves support. It's not about the man/woman any more. Man or woman you don't get to just walk away.

@BobLep0nge

The tax payer still pays as they will be entitled to claim benefits regardless, whether the father pays or not. Cm doesn’t affect benefit payments

If the father actually paid a decent amount for his child the mother might not even have to claim any benefits.

It’s only 15% of his earnings, it’s not suppose to cover everything. They stopped cm affecting benefits Years ago.

It’s only 15% of his earnings, it’s not suppose to cover everything. They stopped cm affecting benefits Years ago

Erm, did you miss where I said 'decent amount'? No one forces men to only pay the minimum.

@BobLep0nge

It’s only 15% of his earnings, it’s not suppose to cover everything. They stopped cm affecting benefits Years ago

Erm, did you miss where I said 'decent amount'? No one forces men to only pay the minimum.

Well if a man doesn’t want the baby he is hardly going to be offering up thousands is he!

I'm under the impression that a man can only be named as father on the birth certificate if he is present at the registration (unless married to the mother). So men can walk away, have no parental responsibility and never have to pay for a child they don't want. Not sure what the point of your OP is.

@RedCandyApple

Regardless of the mother's irresponsibility or change in life circumstances, the child still needs to be paid for. It's unclear why the taxpayer should be doing that, rather than the biological father.

The tax payer still pays as they will be entitled to claim benefits regardless, whether the father pays or not. Cm doesn’t affect benefit payments.

Only because so few non-resident parents ever paid what they actually owed that the link had to be removed.

Even with benefits, too many children grow up in poverty. That's disastrous for the children themselves, expensive for the country and it's unclear why this should happen if they have a biological father who is capable of paying to support them.

If a woman doesn't feel able to terminate without repercussions for her mental health that's not a voluntary choice. Many women can't walk away from pregnancies which is why they go on to have the baby. Given they can't and shouldn't be forced to terminate if it's not right for them, the resulting baby then holds the ethical trump card. It doesn't matter if it's not terribly 'fair' to the father. He knew the risks and did it already. A child's life cannot now be penalised because someone regrets his life choices. You can't walk away from a child. There is an easy way to avoid this dilemma for men but no easy way to avoid deprivation and damage as a child. They must have what they need from the people who made them.

You’re not meant to rely on child maintenance payments, cms will tell you that themselves; that’s why they don’t affect benefits; any woman choosing to go through with a pregnancy that a man doesn’t want should be aware that they might end up with nothing.

Well if a man doesn’t want the baby he is hardly going to be offering up thousands is he!

And that's a great reason why we need to make absent parents pay a lot more than 15%, isn't it? It will lessen the burden on the state, lessen child poverty etc

Both parties do have to take responsibility for their actions. They both have to pay towards their child
Exactly. But in MN world, women failing on their responsibility, failing to protect herself against pregnancy, deciding to keep the pregnancy despite the man clearly not wanting the child, a d more often then not, expect tax payer support, are rarely judge for their decision. When such person post, the response is 'you go girl if you want that baby, its your right, it will be fine, just name sure you get as much from the genitor as you can'. If she decides to go for an abortion, she gets told it's her body, her choice, don't feel guilty, all we all make mistakes, don't beat yourself up for it, it happens'.

Man says he doesn't want to be a father when his partner says she's pregnant even though she swore she was on birth control: 'it's his fault, he should have put a condom on, or never have sex ever, how dare he to say it was a mistake and wants to walk away from it, take ownership of you mistake and accept to pay for 18 years. It's your fault and now you need to pay for it'.

YABU
Men already have all the rights to not want a baby. They still have to be responsible for their actions.

@RedCandyApple

You’re not meant to rely on child maintenance payments, cms will tell you that themselves; that’s why they don’t affect benefits; any woman choosing to go through with a pregnancy that a man doesn’t want should be aware that they might end up with nothing.

Yes, reality does often fall far short of the ideal, doesn't it?

Just because in practice some get away with it isn't a reason to legally allow absent parents to financially abandon their children.

You’re not meant to rely on child maintenance payments, cms will tell you that themselves; that’s why they don’t affect benefits; any woman choosing to go through with a pregnancy that a man doesn’t want should be aware that they might end up with nothing.

that is because so many men don't pay and don't pay enough when they do (and 15% is laughable. Seriously pitiful it should be more) and CMS can't keep on top of it.

Of course the child (and it's parent) should be able to rely on the other parent pulling their weight.

For all those saying "but wah men can't walk away" they can. And they do.

how dare he to say it was a mistake and wants to walk away from it

Because him walking away from it would negate either a) the woman's right to choose what happens to her own body or b) the child's right to be supported by their parents.

Both of those things are much more important than his right to consequence-free shagging. So no, he shouldn't get to walk away.