Men should have the right to not want a baby

[user57639206]

NC as I've been shot down a few times in real life for having this opinion.

I find it bizarre that women can decide that they don't want a baby and opt for a termination (just to clarify, I completely agree with this. It's her right to choice) but when a man decides now isn't the right time, right partner or whatever the reason - he's labelled a arsehole, good for nothing or irresponsible.

Surely if a woman has the right to say "no, not right now/not for me" a man should have the same right? Without being labelled or judged!

I've seen it a few times in real life, be it from a one night stand or a not so serious relationship. The woman wants to keep the baby, the man says he doesn't (but doesn't suggest an abortion), and he's thrown under the bus.

I know there is a big difference in some sense because obviously, the woman goes through all the physical changes/trauma of having a baby - but when are men then taken to court for CA or have knives shoved in their backs for not wanting a baby?

AIBU?

@vivainsomnia

Basically the man's 'right' to a consequence free shag is quite obviously less important than women's rights to their own bodies and children's rights to be supported. Tough Tough indeed....how about making any women pay for their own abortions?

Isn't this a false economy? Purely in monetary terms, abortion is cheaper than pregnancy and childbirth.

I find it so bizarre that women on here think it's acceptable to dictate what a man does with his body i.e. get a vasectomy, but think it's outright appalling if a woman is told what to do with her body i.e. get an abortion.

Absolute hypocrites!!

Except that literally nobody has said this. A vasectomy has been offered as a way of a man being sure that no woman can trap him into having a child. Nobody has actually said they should do this. It is an option.

It does amaze me that so many posters on MUMSnet are shocked and stunned that it is sometimes (not always) more concerned with issues affecting women. And in fact, as this thread shows, there are enough MRAs and/or Handmaidens around to criticise them for that.

@Johnnypiratesfriend

Surely people who are writing he does have a choice condoms or don't have sex are missing the point. Do we say women don't have a choice because they did use contraception or because they had sex? Disgusting double standards again mn.

The woman has the option for an abortion BECAUSE IT IS HER WHO IS PREGNANT. NOT THE MAN. The man does not have the right to force his partner to terminate or to prevent her from doing so.

When men start getting pregnant, I'll fully support their right to terminate without the consent of their partner. As women currently have the right to do.
However, in the absence of that eventuality, there's no rights equivalent to abortion which you can give to men. Not because we're all really mean and hate them, but because it isn't applicable to them so long as their bodies aren't gestating a baby.

You might as well say it's "double standards" that, when a couple decide to have a baby- planned or otherwise- it's the woman who takes on the serious physical risks of pregnancy and birth and not the man. Or, when neither partner wants a child, it's the woman who undergoes a medical procedure to terminate the pregnancy. In either scenario, the man has his desired outcome of either baby or no baby with no more necessary input after ejaculation. Not because the powers that be hate women, but because it's the female body which gestated and births babies. And, when taking that into account alongside the importance of bodily autonomy, we afford women the right to an abortion.

@Gynaesaur

Exactly. No idea why this is such a difficult thing to understand. The risk is not equal whatsoever because men cannot carry or birth babies. They are not risking or suffering the physical, mental, emotional, and financial consequences of being on birth control to prevent pregnancy, becoming pregnant, and motherhood. Women also still die from pregnancy-related conditions and childbirth. Even brain chemistry is said to be changed when having children. What changes do men have that comes equal to that?

@ChocolateMassacre

Well-said.

Men need to be more careful about where they leave their sperm if they don't want to create a baby.

Once you give something away you give away your rights to what happens to it.

They don't necessarily have to abstain but they do need to weigh up the risks and either take steps to minimise them or accept them. The same as women have to.

I do think that messaging regarding contraception should normalise both parties taking steps to prevent pregnancy, condoms and the pill/implant/injection/coil should be the norm for people not in permanent/long term relationships.

OSHA osha so you are suggesting women break the law to appease men? How can a law be brought in to allow men to escape their obligations based on women having to break another law?

While i agree that a man shouldn't be able to force a woman into an abortion she doesn't want or even to go through with a pregnancy she doesn't want. I do believe that if he has taken reasonable contraceptive steps and she still falls pregnant he should be able to legally remove himself from and responsibility financial or otherwise if she chooses to go ahead with a pregnancy he doesn't want.

Let’s face it if a man wants to get out of paying cm he can anyway, how often do we hear of men paying pennies or nothing at all? I was on a single parents group the other day and a woman was pregnant from a 4 month relationship, they had an argument so he left and she had no way of contacting him. She didn’t know where he lived, he apparently didn’t work, had no Facebook, blocked her number and she has never met any of his friends or family. I mean why would you even want to keep a baby in that situation? He's not working so no maintenance anyway. Women do need to take some responsibility for continuing with an unwanted pregnancy by accepting the man will probably never be around and likely not pay anything.

he should be able to legally remove himself from and responsibility financial or otherwise if she chooses to go ahead with a pregnancy he doesn't want.

Who pays for the child?

Women should have the final decision as to whether to abort the baby, but men should have the right to absolve themselves of any responsibility for it.

So if the limit for an abortion is 24 weeks, men should be obliged to declare whether they support the pregnancy by week 23 (assuming woman hasn't already aborted). If they don't support it, the woman can still choose to have the baby, but knowing they won't be entitled to any support or money from the father.

It's more complicated if the man wants the baby but the woman doesn't, I guess the fairest way to deal with this would be to establish a tariff system whereby the man has to pay the woman a certain amount for her to keep the baby (depending on the risk to the mother).

@ChocolateMassacre The woman who decided to go ahead with a pregnancy knowing that the man does not want to be involved.

But she doesn’t choose to go ahead with the pregnancy. The pregnancy happens. Why are people not getting this? She can’t just choose and abortion without lying or the law being changed!

I don't understand why people keep pointing out that it's not fair or that it's double standards, like this is an interesting point. Of course it isn't fair. Every single thing about sex and reproduction is double standards for men and women. Name one thing that's equal and fair between men and women when it comes to sex and reproduction.

We have different bodies. It is never fair. So what? The only rational response to this is to grow up and accept it.

God, this thread reminds me of gay men complaining that it's not fair that it's easier for lesbian couples to have a baby that is biologically related to one of them.

Whataboutery. Start a thread about that if you want to talk about it
Why? It's perfectly relevant to the discussion. Men are expected to pay for 18 years of their 'mistake', why can't women pay the one off payment for theirs?

@Didyousaynutella

But she doesn’t choose to go ahead with the pregnancy. The pregnancy happens. Why are people not getting this? She can’t just choose and abortion without lying or the law being changed!

She can just ring up and get some tablets sent out to her and its all done within a couple of days! Yes it is that easy, i worked in that field for years!

It's more complicated if the man wants the baby but the woman doesn't, I guess the fairest way to deal with this would be to establish a tariff system whereby the man has to pay the woman a certain amount for her to keep the baby (depending on the risk to the mother).

I'm sure this wasn't your intention, but this reads as if you think men should be able to use women as incubators against their will so long as they pay a fair 'rent' for use of the woman's womb. Was this what you meant?

@MorningStarling

It's more complicated if the man wants the baby but the woman doesn't, I guess the fairest way to deal with this would be to establish a tariff system whereby the man has to pay the woman a certain amount for her to keep the baby (depending on the risk to the mother).

Jesus Christ.

Why? It's perfectly relevant to the discussion. Men are expected to pay for 18 years of their 'mistake', why can't women pay the one off payment for theirs

Because one is a medical procedure and one is a child incapable of supporting themselves. Are you seriously not capable of understanding that difference?

[quote wanttomarryamillionaire]@ChocolateMassacre The woman who decided to go ahead with a pregnancy knowing that the man does not want to be involved.[/quote]
Like I said, almost half of all children in single parent families live in poverty. In reality, the state is paying in many cases - and it is not paying enough to provide a decent standard of living.

Why should the taxpayer pay rather than the man who helped to make the baby? His 'mistake', after all. (Though the reality is that it's usually the taxpayer who pays through tax credits/help with childcare/UC).

It’s a medical procedure
Thats debatable. Majority of abortions include taking a couple of pills. Prescriptions are not free for most people in England.

Dentistry is a medical procedure, you still have to pay for them.

Isn't this a false economy? Purely in monetary terms, abortion is cheaper than pregnancy and childbirth
Absolutely. It's not a moral decision because women are more deserving of free treatment of their choice but purely because the alternative is more expensive.

So what? The only rational response to this is to grow up and accept it
No, the rational response is to expect both sex to take responsibity for their actions, not just put the blame on the man purely because it happens to be the woman carrying the baby. An unwanted baby remains that and both are in the wrong in creating it in the first place.

@ChocolateMassacre well doesn't that make a woman completely irresponsible if she chooses to keep a child that is not wanted by the father and will need to be funded by the tax payer? Thats on the mother who made that decision not the man who was clear with his intentions.

No, the rational response is to expect both sex to take responsibity for their actions, not just put the blame on the man purely because it happens to be the woman carrying the baby. An unwanted baby remains that and both are in the wrong in creating it in the first place.

Both parties do have to take responsibility for their actions. They both have to pay towards their child.

The reason abortion is permitted is not to give women another contraceptive option, but because it is viewed as morally wrong to force women to carry a child and give birth against their will. It is also worth pointing out that abortion is legally only available under English law when there is a risk to the mother's physical or mental health from the pregnancy proceeding. The justification for abortion is therefore to protect the mother's health.

@MorningStarling
“It's more complicated if the man wants the baby but the woman doesn't, I guess the fairest way to deal with this would be to establish a tariff system whereby the man has to pay the woman a certain amount for her to keep the baby (depending on the risk to the mother).”

A tariff system??????
What the actual fuck …….

I agree in the instance that if a woman wishes to keep the baby, but the man doesn't want to have anything to do with it. She should continue the pregnancy independently, knowing she's doing it on her own, without expecting his support, and he should sign over any parental responsibility now and forever. She has as much responsibility for contraception or avoiding sex altogether, as a man does.
However, I do not agree in the instance he wants to keep it and she doesn't. He has no right at all to insist she keeps the baby and put herself through an unwanted pregnancy.

men do have the right not to want a baby

available in the form of abstinence, correct and vigilant condom use and/or a vasectomy