Men should have the right to not want a baby

[user57639206]

NC as I've been shot down a few times in real life for having this opinion.

I find it bizarre that women can decide that they don't want a baby and opt for a termination (just to clarify, I completely agree with this. It's her right to choice) but when a man decides now isn't the right time, right partner or whatever the reason - he's labelled a arsehole, good for nothing or irresponsible.

Surely if a woman has the right to say "no, not right now/not for me" a man should have the same right? Without being labelled or judged!

I've seen it a few times in real life, be it from a one night stand or a not so serious relationship. The woman wants to keep the baby, the man says he doesn't (but doesn't suggest an abortion), and he's thrown under the bus.

I know there is a big difference in some sense because obviously, the woman goes through all the physical changes/trauma of having a baby - but when are men then taken to court for CA or have knives shoved in their backs for not wanting a baby?

AIBU?

@user57639206

At what point did I say she should be forced to abort? Maybe re-read and engage your brain?

My point is if he doesn't want to have a child either at all, or right now, surely he should be allowed to walk away without a stigma? Just as a woman rightly can abort without stigma

Well the problem is easily solved if he doesn't put his unprotected dick in a woman.

The decision making process does not start once a woman has actually fallen pregnant.

@Rosieposie101

I agree tjat je shojld be able to 'opt out' officially meaning he can sign a legal document and agree that he can never go back on it and never have anything to with the child/have any rights over or say in how the child is raised etc. In return he's legally not the father.

Seems logical to me but MN HATES it when people say this, everyone I've ever seen suggesting it has been absolutely flamed. Guess it's a sensitive topic.

Again, how would this work practically? And how does not legally being a father change nature? What about the child and their rights? What about the rise in poverty that would be inevitable? Who would pay for all the infrastructure required to carry this out?

@UnevenBooks

Maybe have a vasectomy that solves the problem, you won't have to worry about someone getting pregnant then.

These are the arguments anti-abortionists use against women. "If she wants to have sex but doesn't want a child, she should get her tubes tied etc".

Some women get pregnant and don't want an abortion or to have the baby, so the baby goes into the care system, where they aren't all adopted into nice loving homes and abuse can be rampant, or simply the act of being adopted can cause it's own mental health issues. Those children are the victim of the care system, yes, but also the victims of two adults who "shagged carelessly".

You can’t just drop a baby into an orphanage like it’s a parcel - that’s not how the care system works.

You can’t just drop a baby into an orphanage like it’s a parcel - that’s not how the care system works.

Where did I mention an orphanage?

I totally agree that men should have the right not to have children if they don't want them. It's great that contraception is so widely available these days, though abstention is obviously the safest option.

I don't agree that a man should have any right over what a pregnant woman chooses to do with her body. And once a child is here in the world, I believe that both parents have a responsibility for that child that neither of them should be able to just walk away from.

You claimed women who don’t want babies they give birth to out them in the care system. That’s not how it works. There’s no hotline to call to say “take my baby”

Everyone is saying if a man doesn't want a baby he should use condom or not have sex , would you say that to a woman that chooses to not have a baby ?

You claimed women who don’t want babies they give birth to out them in the care system. That’s not how it works. There’s no hotline to call to say “take my baby”

Well, no, but you can start the process by informing social services that you do not want to care for this baby/can't care for the baby, and social services can then begin whatever work they need to do with mum, and find either suitable adoptive parents or foster parents, whatever.

Or even speaking directly to an adoption agency.

Once the baby is born, it’s about the child’s right to care and financial support. Anyone who provided DNA is equally culpable by default. The only acceptable out is finding another adult capable of fulfilling all the duties and responsibilities associated with parenthood who will take your place legally through adoption.

They do have a right not to have a baby, it's called celibacy.

I do get what you mean - 2 people get pregnant but only the woman gets to make the final position - but at the end of the day it can only be one person's decisions and it has to be the person carrying the baby/having the termination.
Once the baby is born then both parent's have the responsibility for the baby and neither should be able to walk away - its about responsibility to the baby then. I'm not sure what happens on adoption though- i know the father couldn't insist on an adoption - which effectively means he would have to carry on being responsible for the child - would he have the right to stop an an adoption and bring up the child himself - if so would he be able to insist on the mother contributing?
Its all crap anyway because at the end of day the father can get away with a minimal financial support and no ongoing emotional/practical involvement

@user57639206

Again to clarify, I do not endorse forced abortions or pregnancy on any woman.

I'm say why can a man not just walk away without stigma???

God, you're SO right - men have it so hard!

Stigma? are you having a fucking laugh?

@Gynaesaur

Yanbu. There should be some thing that men can go to court for to absolve themselves of any responsibility for a pregnancy as long as they do it within the right timeframe. But it has to be a permanent choice so these men don’t get to change their minds and decide they want the child back later in life.

This seems, frankly, a terrible idea. However, just to establish quite how terrible:

1. Is this something that would have to be done before a couple engage in sexual intercourse? Or is this an easy way for a man to back out AFTER the woman becomes pregnant?

2. If the latter, how late into the pregnancy can a man legally absolve himself of responsibility? Women get 24 weeks for an abortion. Longer with certain medical conditions- could the man get an extension on the time limit if it's found out later on that the child's likely to be seriously disabled?

3. If a couple are married, not initially planning children, and the wife decides to keep an unplanned pregnancy, can the husband still absolve himself of responsibility? After all, a woman can get an abortion without her husband's permission and we're all about the EQUALITY here.

4. If the child, when grown up, feels that their childhood has been severely adversely affected by only having one parent responsible for them (Lots are in this position, of course, but a judge hasn't usually signed off on it is thought to be in the best interests of the child), could they sue?

We should be striving for equality in rights as much as we can.

When men are able to get pregnant, I'll fully support their right to have terminations. As it stands, they have all the necessary reproductive rights pertaining to themselves and their bodies. They can access contraception, have vasectomies or abstain from sex altogether. Women have these equivalent rights, as well as the right to a termination. Because it is within the woman's body that a pregnancy is gestated. Not because we're being really mean to the poor ickle men.

I realise it's probably poor form to repost your own post, but I'd quite like to see these answered. Because, whilst I may be "perpetuating MN's man hating agenda", bugger all thought seems to have gone into how a man should be able to legally absolve himself of any responsibility for his offspring.

Haven't RTFT but I imagine I'm just repeating what others have said.
Because of the nature of human biology the foetus grows in the woman's body if conception takes place. It is her body and thetefore her right to decide what to do. To continue with the pregnancy or to abort. This is her choice. Men's physical and biological input ends pre-conception so the decision not to have a baby must be made then. Pre-conception. So if you don't want a baby don't engage in behaviour which might result in conception, ie sex. Or have a vasectomy. Those are your choices.

@DorsVenabili

I do get what you mean - 2 people get pregnant but only the woman gets to make the final position - but at the end of the day it can only be one person's decisions and it has to be the person carrying the baby/having the termination. Once the baby is born then both parent's have the responsibility for the baby and neither should be able to walk away - its about responsibility to the baby then. I'm not sure what happens on adoption though- i know the father couldn't insist on an adoption - which effectively means he would have to carry on being responsible for the child - would he have the right to stop an an adoption and bring up the child himself - if so would he be able to insist on the mother contributing? Its all crap anyway because at the end of day the father can get away with a minimal financial support and no ongoing emotional/practical involvement

If a mother doesn't want to keep the baby after birth, then yes the father can keep the baby, but most often they don't want to or they can't from a safeguarding point of view. It already works both ways. It is ideal for the baby to be with the birth parents or either birth parent, so social services will try and see to this. Basically, the baby can't just be whisked away from the dad just because the mum doesn't want it. But surely you can see that the kind of mother who relinquishes parental responsibility doesn't tend to have the best support around her and the father has already fucked off?

You also need to keep in mind that it's always certain who the mother of a baby is as it has to come out of her. The identity of the father isn't as clear cut so parental responsibility isn't automatic unless they are married or he is named on the birth certificate, and a woman can refuse to name him. A man can always apply for this through the courts though and prove the paternity via DNA test.

Of course an absent mother has to pay CMS to the father if he's got the child. Again it works both ways.

So if you don't want a baby don't engage in behaviour which might result in conception, ie sex.

You apply that logic to women, as well?

@user57639206

Again to clarify, I do not endorse forced abortions or pregnancy on any woman.

I'm say why can a man not just walk away without stigma???

Because said man created a baby, and said baby needs to be cared for.....

It said man does not step up then we do, our tax pay for his wlaking away without stigma!!

*pays

@DryOldCaper

So if you don't want a baby don't engage in behaviour which might result in conception, ie sex.

You apply that logic to women, as well?

See, as I said, men and women are different in biological make-up. If a woman doesn't want to continue a pregnancy she has a choice. Not a great choice but a choice. A man doesn't have a choice because he doesn't get pregnant.

@worriedatthemoment

Everyone is saying if a man doesn't want a baby he should use condom or not have sex , would you say that to a woman that chooses to not have a baby ?

Are you mentally challenged?

Yes if a woman doesn't want to get pregnant she should use a safe effective contraception properly or not have sex.

It's not rocket science. When people have heterosexual PIV sex pregnancy and or STI can result. Therefore be an adult and take a responsibility for you actions.

If you don't want to take responsibility for you actions do do it.

I had this conversation with my son at 15 and he understood it quite well, what is confusing you?

I'm say why can a man not just walk away without stigma

Because supporting your child is not a punishment for a man for having sex nor is it a reward for the woman. A child exists and their needs are paramount. The circumstances around their conception and birth are irrelevant to a child who needs to be supported

@worriedatthemoment

Everyone is saying if a man doesn't want a baby he should use condom or not have sex , would you say that to a woman that chooses to not have a baby ?

Ummm yes? That's the whole point of contraception and why the responsibility for it is largely on the female anyway. We literally take hormone altering medicine just to avoid it and that notion is pushed to us as soon as we're old enough to have sex. Think of how many young girls are told to go on the pill, get the implant etc

If a man is shagging around he needs to take responsibility of ensuring he doesn't get someone pregnant. If he's in a relationship he needs to have that chat with partner, and ALSO take responsibility

There are times when a man unfortunately does use a condom and it fails.

You STILL have to pay.

Do NOT have sex with a woman you wouldn't be happy to bear your child, because whether or not she continues is out of your control.

@worriedatthemoment

Everyone is saying if a man doesn't want a baby he should use condom or not have sex , would you say that to a woman that chooses to not have a baby ?

Yes obviously