Men should have the right to not want a baby

[user57639206]

NC as I've been shot down a few times in real life for having this opinion.

I find it bizarre that women can decide that they don't want a baby and opt for a termination (just to clarify, I completely agree with this. It's her right to choice) but when a man decides now isn't the right time, right partner or whatever the reason - he's labelled a arsehole, good for nothing or irresponsible.

Surely if a woman has the right to say "no, not right now/not for me" a man should have the same right? Without being labelled or judged!

I've seen it a few times in real life, be it from a one night stand or a not so serious relationship. The woman wants to keep the baby, the man says he doesn't (but doesn't suggest an abortion), and he's thrown under the bus.

I know there is a big difference in some sense because obviously, the woman goes through all the physical changes/trauma of having a baby - but when are men then taken to court for CA or have knives shoved in their backs for not wanting a baby?

AIBU?

It takes both a man and woman to conceive a child. The right to methods to prevent conception (contraception, abstention, vasectomy/tubal ligation) are therefore afforded to both men and women.

This does not always work. The result is that the WOMAN becomes pregnant, as a result of the sexual intercourse which took place between the MAN AND WOMAN.

The gestation and birthing of said child falls solely on the woman. She is therefore afforded the right to terminate the pregnancy. You can't give the man the same right, as he isn't pregnant. He also does not have the right to force the woman to terminate her pregnancy or prevent her from choosing to do so, as this would be a violation of her bodily autonomy.

If the woman chooses to continue the pregnancy, a baby is born and is then the foremost priority. It has two parents, both of whom have a responsibility to it.
In almost all cases, the mother fulfills her responsibility to the child (admittedly, with highly varied degrees of competence).

When the child wasn't conceived within a stable relationship (or even if they were but were unplanned) the actions of the father are less certain. Some of the real princes among men might feel a bit squeamish about child abandonment and do their bit to support their child. A frankly concerning amount of men have no problem with it whatsoever. And they leave. And they don't pay maintenance. And they move on with their lives. Even without the court-approved absolving of responsibility proposed by posters on here.

They've cracked it! Against all the odds, all the obstacles manufactured by malicious, sperm-stealing harpies... They've had consequence free sex!

Except they haven't, of course. There remains a child who is growing up without a father and the emotional, practical and financial support which tends to come with each half decent parent. They and their mother are almost always in a more precarious financial position than they would have been had the father been contributing to the child's upbringing.
The man hasn't gotten rid of the consequences of his actions, he's merely shifted them onto someone else.

Well yes - but if a man doesn't want a baby he has a vasectomy

Very different when a woman is caught out with an unwanted pregnancy even when on contraception

Women suffer the worse consequences of unwanted pregnancies. Ever had an abortion? A friend haemorrhaged really badly during hers.
Or during a surgical abortion things can go wrong and even if they don’t its no picnic.

Women have to put up with the stigma of abortion, a colleague was so ashamed she had one.

And what is wrong with abstaining from PIV sex? Men don’t explode and their dicks don’t fall off if they abstain.

They can use condoms, what’s wrong with that?

There are consequences to having unprotected sex. One of the consequences being you might end up with s baby.

You don’t want a baby take charge of your fertility.

I know plenty of men who haven’t gotten women pregnant. It’s amazing.

A man who doesn't want a child, is going to do everything in their power to not provide for that child. Why waste time and hours fighting for something, that you'll never get anyway?

That's not true though. Some men do pay even if they have nothing else to do with their children, some men grow up/change/realise what a shit they have been and do enter their child's life and end up having a good relationship with that child.

@Katie2017 my point still stands that they’re two viable options - if a man doesn’t want a child that bad would it actually kill him to abstain from sex? No.

Vastectomies are easily reversible and are not difficult to get, they’re just not common amongst young single men.

And men and women aren’t on an even keel with this subject - you can’t just say “women have that choice too” when actually the consequences are so wildly different between the sexes. Men have sex KNOWING they’ll have no say on what happens if she gets pregnant, so it’s absolutely on them to decide wether it’s worth it.

And similarly women have sex knowing they’ll have a free choice if they get pregnant, so it’s in them to decide if it’s worth the risk too.

Let’s not pretend men are the hard done by ones here though

@jackstini

Well yes - but if a man doesn't want a baby he has a vasectomy

Very different when a woman is caught out with an unwanted pregnancy even when on contraception

Are you suggesting that an 18 year old man has a vasectomy, because he doesn't want a baby YET?

I can have as much sex as I want without any consequences that men apparently aren't entitled to.

Falling pregnant and then either having an abortion or having the baby IS a consequence. It doesn’t just disappear if you click your heels three times.

And FWIW, plenty of men do a runner when a woman is pregnant with their baby, and in this country at least can dodge child maintenance forever more, so there really are no consequences for them

Are you suggesting that an 18 year old man has a vasectomy, because he doesn't want a baby YET?

Of course he doesn't need a procedure, nor even to raise the child. The mother takes that responsibility on when she continues the pregnancy. Still have to pay for the child, though.

Men have sex KNOWING they’ll have no say on what happens if she gets pregnant, so it’s absolutely on them to decide wether it’s worth it.

How to you suggest that men have relationships, if they decide that they need to remain a virgin until they're ready to be a father?

When it comes down to it, men have no control at all beyond wearing a condom. Everything after that is under the woman's control. I'm not saying that it can be any other way, but it's disingenuous to suggest that men can do anything reasonable that removes all risk of becoming a father. They can't. It's remain a virgin or have a vasectomy. Neither of which are reasonable ways for a young bloke to live their life. And to be frank, what woman would want a relationship with a young man who did either?

Firstly and obviously, no man can have jurisdiction over a womens body or pregnancy.
Secondly, the right to financial support from the father belong to the baby and are nobody else's to either give away or take away.
Thirdly - surely he should be allowed to walk away without a stigma? the fact is they can and do.

Oh right. The woman gets it so easy. If she fancies not having a baby, all she has to do is click her fingers and her bidding is done. Or if she wants to keep the baby, she just skips off into the sunset with her little bundle of joy.
You do realise that these decisions can be really traumatic and lead to possible physical and mental difficulties? Sometimes severe and even death. Of course it’s her decision to do what she wants.
The man needs to ensure no child is conceived if he’s that against it.

How to you suggest that men have relationships, if they decide that they need to remain a virgin until they're ready to be a father?

I’m not saying they have to remain virgins, but they can’t choose to have sex - and remember by nature sex is supposed to result in pregnancy - then be shocked, or offended when sex results in pregnancy. They go in knowing that, so it’s up to them to own that decision.

As an aside, why are so many people horrified at the suggestion of men abstaining? You’d think it resulted in death! Why are so many women absolutely disgusted at the thought of men not being able to have their cake and eat it as well? And almost angry that men can’t trick nature and get their way at every step in life? Are we that brainwashed that we think men are actually naturally entitled to risk free sex and any consequences are the problem of the woman?

It’s 2022 FFS, isn’t it time to start fighting womens’ corner!

When it comes down to it, men have no control at all beyond wearing a condom. Everything after that is under the woman's control

Oh boo hoo. So men face a little hard decision making and adversity in life. I’m sure they’ll cope.

What @ButtercupOfFlorin said.

No matter what excuses etc that are given, men DO have the final choice. Buck stops with them.
Properly used contraception has a very low failure rate, far less that MN would have us believe with the abundance of anecdotal evidence always available on these types of threads 🙄
They have the choice to use protection or to not use protection. There are possible consequences when choosing not to. We all know it, it's no big secret. Don't want a baby? Ensure that you don't create one. It really IS that simple.

And educate your sons to have the respect for themselves and their partners and ALWAYS protect each other. 🤷‍♀️

@BlueBeeSpots

Men can choose to not have a baby by wearing a condom

So if he wears a condom and the woman still gets pregnant he has the right to walk away from the baby?

A woman gets pregnant : she doesn't want the pregnancy, she aborts. No one's calling her a arsehole, irresponsible or awful.

... you are joking right? You think women have terminations and 'no one' calls her those things, tells her it's wrong, says she's a murderer etc? You've not heard of people picketing outside clinics? Really?

If a man doesn't want a baby he needs to abstain from sex as no birth control is 100%

Women can choose to abort because it's their body.

He should get the snip then or use a condom

Properly used contraception has a very low failure rate, far less that MN would have us believe with the abundance of anecdotal evidence always available on these types of threads

Yep - and I’m even more embarrassed for the people who say “my male friend was seeing a woman who said she was on the pill and she TRICKED HIM”. FFS presumably these men have jobs, brains and a tongue in their gob, enough to insist on using a condom? Why not just say the truth and say he didn’t wanna use a condom because apparently it’s not as good so he thought that he’d try to trick nature.

Because it isn’t the man who has to actually go through the process of actually ending a life if they don’t want the baby.

Because if a man were allowed to walk away if they didn’t want the baby baby then more women would feel like they had no choice to have an abortion.

Abortions for social reasons are actually illegal in the uk. So the argument is mute anyway. They are only allowed on the grounds of the mental health of the mother.

If we believe that intercourse is solely to recreate then both parties enter into it with that knowledge and therefore the intention of recreating - however few have that belief. If neither side intend for a baby to be born then how can one side be blamed if this is the result - it is neither the male or female 'fault,' however, the decision on what happens next will depend upon the context.

Abortions for social reasons are actually illegal in the uk. So the argument is mute anyway. They are only allowed on the grounds of the mental health of the mother.

This is completely untrue. And a dangerous message to spread.

Although I agree with the rest of your post.

Let’s not forget if we let men financially abscond from fatherhood then poverty would spike tremendously. But hey, as long as the blokes don’t have to get out their wallets, they’re the important ones in all this

Maybe have a vasectomy that solves the problem, you won't have to worry about someone getting pregnant then.