Men should have the right to not want a baby

[user57639206]

NC as I've been shot down a few times in real life for having this opinion.

I find it bizarre that women can decide that they don't want a baby and opt for a termination (just to clarify, I completely agree with this. It's her right to choice) but when a man decides now isn't the right time, right partner or whatever the reason - he's labelled a arsehole, good for nothing or irresponsible.

Surely if a woman has the right to say "no, not right now/not for me" a man should have the same right? Without being labelled or judged!

I've seen it a few times in real life, be it from a one night stand or a not so serious relationship. The woman wants to keep the baby, the man says he doesn't (but doesn't suggest an abortion), and he's thrown under the bus.

I know there is a big difference in some sense because obviously, the woman goes through all the physical changes/trauma of having a baby - but when are men then taken to court for CA or have knives shoved in their backs for not wanting a baby?

AIBU?

@RedCandyApple

Unpopular opinion op but I agree with you and I think pp are missing the point op is not saying the woman should abort she’s saying the man shouldn’t have to step up and play dad to a child he didn’t want or pay maintenance for them.

I don’t claim child maintenance from my ex as he decided he wanted nothing to do with our children, I’m not going to force someone who wants nothing to do with our children to pay for them.

By that logic what's to stop a man getting a gf pregnant with a planned baby then changing his mind, lying and saying he never wanted it in the first place. It puts women in an even more shitty position and more likely to be abandoned by dead beats.

@phishy

YABU.

Engage your brain FFS. No one should be able to dictate that a woman abort a baby.

The irony of the "engage your brain" statement, when you clearly chose to ignore what she was actually saying.

She didn't say that a man should be able to dictate that a woman aborts a baby, you choose to read it that way 🙄

I think if a guy has unprotected sex with a woman or just expect her to be on the pill/take care of the contraception they need to accept that a pregnancy might be a result.

So if someone does not want a kid, they should make sure they 'wrap it up'...yes, accidents do happen but again if you have sex you need to accept that this might be an outcome.

That said I would never judge a man who feels a relationship has run its course/does not wan to commit to someone who might be expecting their kid and be an active father.

You can't force someone to love/care about a child. I expect them to take care of them financially though but sometimes it is better not to have a reluctant father around.

I sort of understand what the OP is saying though because there will always be some silly girls who decide to have a kid knowing full well that the relationship is not good/committed/well-established and probably won't last or in cases where the guy has made it clear they do not want kids but the woman decides to go ahead expecting him to change his mind when the baby arrives.

In these cases I do think they are completely unreasonable to expect full support from a guy and I feel sorry for the men who are tricked in this way.

I really don't get what is so complicated. If you don't want some evil harpy trapping you into getting her pregnant, take precautions.

And be a flipping grown up about it. Contraception fails all the time. You can no more force a woman to give birth (although plenty of governments etc try) than you can force her to get an abortion (although I'm guite sure it happens).

Playing hide the sausage without taking precautions is risky. The outcome of that risk is not deserving of having one parent simply abdicate responsibility because they don't want to be a parent. Tough. They are going to be one and they have to step up.

As for all the handmaidens spouting utter piffle about how women have the all the best outcomes here can do one. We know that single mothers, even now, are criticised to high heavens, and the largest number of children living in poverty are the children of those single mothers. That isn't exactly getting away with it scott free, is it? And weight that against the billions of unpaid maintenance.

By that logic what's to stop a man getting a gf pregnant with a planned baby then changing his mind, lying and saying he never wanted it in the first place. It puts women in an even more shitty position and more likely to be abandoned by dead beats.

That’s what my ex did, said after 4 kids he doesn’t want them and they are my responsibility because I “chose to keep them” at first I opened a maintenance claim but then I thought about it and thought If someone doesn’t want to see my children then I don’t want anything from him. I don’t judge other women for claiming but I do agree with other posters that there should be something a man can sign to give up all rights and he can’t go back on it.

Men can and do walk away - allll the time. So you’re just saying you want them to be able to do so without any stigma? In other words, won’t someone think of the menz poor hurty feels?

I do agree with other posters that there should be something a man can sign to give up all rights and he can’t go back on it

That would strip the child of its right to be supported by both parents though. You end up with some children having less rights than others.

@BobLep0nge

I do agree with other posters that there should be something a man can sign to give up all rights and he can’t go back on it

That would strip the child of its right to be supported by both parents though. You end up with some children having less rights than others.

I would rather have that than have any money from my ex, I hate that my ex has “rights” over my children that he doesn’t see. Like I said I don’t judge other women for claiming though.

I think the issue is when men dont want a baby, yet leave it to someone else to sort contraception

This is spot on. I absolutely do not ever want to have another baby. If the male pill was a thing there is not a chance I would hand my risk of pregnancy to someone else. There doesn't even need to be a deliberate deception but an accidental missed dose, an episode of sickness etc. And I live in a country with easy access to abortion and would have no qualms about having one if needed.
It is surely even more foolish for a man to rely on another person to control their fertility knowing that their rights over the matter end upon ejaculation. Utterly baffling.

@justustwoandmoo

I agree with you OP. A friend of mine made it v v clear that he didn't want a child and was told that she was on the pill. He even offered to used a condom on top of that but she insisted no. She wasn't on the pill but was desperate for a baby. He was devastated. She totally took advantage of him. How is that even remotely fair??

He's now paying maintenance and standing by his responsibilities but it's been a massive blow for him as he can't do any of the travel etc that he wanted do.

The mind boggles...

Good lord above!! You really believe that bull?

If he was so adamant he could have had a vasectomy, or made the decision to abstain unless he was able to use a condom. He made the choice to have unprotected sex, and then blamed the woman for the consequences.

@ABCDEF1234

Completely agree op. I think this forum is unbelievably biased towards women. Should the man be able to dictate an abortion, no. Should a man be able to walk away with no responsibility for a child he said he didn't want, yes. Just like how if the woman didn't want a child she could have an abortion. Yes a man can "abstein from sex" or wear a condom to avoid a pregenancy. BUT and a massive but, a woman could do exactly the same by using the pill and absteining from sex.

You think a website called MUMsnet, run by women and mainly contributed by women, who run campaigns for women is unbelievably biased towards women , you got enough glue to share?

@SmellinOfTroy IKR, how dare we say women should keep our bodily autonomy in this way?

I agree. Coming from a single parent household, I grew up without a father around. I didn't miss him, he didn't provide for me or my siblings either financially or emotionally. My mum did a much better job. Why should he get parental responsibility of me? He wasn't a parent.
I don't like this idea that it's strips away the right to be supported by both parents as @BobLep0nge says. A man who doesn't want a child, is going to do everything in their power to not provide for that child. Why waste time and hours fighting for something, that you'll never get anyway?

Men do have the right to decide they don't want a baby. They don't have a right to demand a woman has an abortion.

If he doesn't want a baby he needs to be proactive. He can absolutely decide not to, his sperm isn't being extracted without his knowledge, he knows exactly where he's putting it and if he is reckless about it that's on him and he only has himself to blame. Once the baby is conceived it is tough shit.

He has lots of options though, abstinence, vasectomy, condoms, pulling out, abandoning the woman when she gets pregnant, abandoning her when he gets bored part way through the pregnancy or after the baby arrives. I don't feel sorry for them.

Tbh the world would be a better place if men were more responsible about where they leave their semen.

Men do have a choice.

They could get a vasectomy, but hardly any men do.

They could abstain from sex but heaven forbid he doesn’t get it wet for more than 2 second.

Two perfectly excellent options if he doesn’t want a baby.

Surely this is better than being completely surprised when sex - the primary purpose of which is to conceive a child - results in the conception of a child.

If he was THAT BOTHERED he could even, I dunno, get to know a woman before sleeping with her to find out if she shares his values of having a family. But then that would present a problem because then he wouldn’t be able to objectify any vagina he wanted to stick his penis in.

Million dollar question: what will it ACTUALLY TAKE for people to hold men responsible single for their actions rather than blaming the nearest woman? Anyone, for a million dollars?

@ButtercupOfFlorin

Men do have a choice.

They could get a vasectomy, but hardly any men do.

They could abstain from sex but heaven forbid he doesn’t get it wet for more than 2 second.

Two perfectly excellent options if he doesn’t want a baby.

Surely this is better than being completely surprised when sex - the primary purpose of which is to conceive a child - results in the conception of a child.

If he was THAT BOTHERED he could even, I dunno, get to know a woman before sleeping with her to find out if she shares his values of having a family. But then that would present a problem because then he wouldn’t be able to objectify any vagina he wanted to stick his penis in.

Million dollar question: what will it ACTUALLY TAKE for people to hold men responsible single for their actions rather than blaming the nearest woman? Anyone, for a million dollars?

Us women also have the choice of those two options (and a lot more besides) I think it's ridiculous to expect anyone to abstain from sex and vasectomy is surgery that is hard to reverse and means he can probably never have kids later. Plus it's hard to find a doc to even perform it depending on age so please don't trot out those two options like they are no big deal. I doubt anyone would advise a woman to just never have sex or get sterilised if she didn't want kids.

I know as a woman I NEVER have to have a child I don't want, and I don't have to be abstinent or have surgery to prevent it. I can have as much sex as I want without any consequences that men apparently aren't entitled to.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

I never fail to be surprised at how strongly some women will argue for men to be able to fuck with total impunity and leave 100% of the consequences to women. The internalised misogyny!!

Absolutely this

I know as a woman I NEVER have to have a child I don't want, and I don't have to be abstinent or have surgery to prevent it. I can have as much sex as I want without any consequences that men apparently aren't entitled to.

Well no, you don’t have no consequences - if you got pregnant and didn’t want it you’d have to have a procedure to remove it. That’s a consequence.

This is why my husband was a virgin when I met him. And why I’ll be teaching my son to avoid casual sex too.
Abstaining is the only 100% way to avoid fatherhood for a man.

The problem is that men want to have sex with women who they don’t necessarily want to have children with. Much in the same way that women want to have sex but can choose the baby they keep. I do struggle to understand why someone would keep a baby by a one night stand or by someone they didn’t know very well? Every child should be born into a living relationship where they are wanted by both parents. There’s a lot to be said for old fashioned values.

• loving

I I would rather have that than have any money from my ex, I hate that my ex has “rights” over my children that he doesn’t see. Like I said I don’t judge other women for claiming though.

One big difference between men and women is the pill as contraception. It has the huge advantage of being reversible so very different than a vasectomy.
And there is t such a thing as the pill for men.

Except, actually there is but they stopped the trials because men were experiencing various side effects such as depression, weight gain and increase risk of blood clots.
It was deemed too dangerous and uncomfortable for the men.
That’s the same side effects women deal with everyday when taking the pill.

So there is also another side to that discussion. Which is that men are not likely to be happy to cope with all the negative side effects of hormonal medication. But by not wanting that, they are also closing the doors to a way of protecting themselves from pg.

@Anythingbutsnow

We never tell women if they really, really don't want a baby they shouldn't have sex. But not having sex is the only way to 100 percent guarantee not having a baby. We would never say to a pregnant woman who doesn't want to be pregnant that she shouldn't have had sex, or even that she should have used contraception.

Where have you been? Women are always blamed for "not keeping their legs shut", "tricking" men into fatherhood etc. etc.

I despair.

Sorry wrong quote !!!!

I was commenting this one
I know as a woman I NEVER have to have a child I don't want, and I don't have to be abstinent or have surgery to prevent it. I can have as much sex as I want without any consequences that men apparently aren't entitled to.

Really if a man does want to become a father, yes it is his choice, so he puts a condom on at the very least! As others have pointed out the ramifications for a woman are far greater.

But also to go back to your original point about women who choose to have abortions that no one judges them or thinks that they are awful for doing so. I think that is a massive over simplification. What about the pro lifers that protest outside clinics where abortions take place? I know women in the UK who were hounded by pro life groups before and after their abortion. Just look at republican parts of America? Abortion has only recently been legalised in Ireland. In many many counties around the world abortion is still a criminal offence. So I really disagree that women get off lightly with the choice to terminate their pregnancies, they really don't.

Men do. They can take responsibility for contraception.