Men should have the right to not want a baby

[user57639206]

NC as I've been shot down a few times in real life for having this opinion.

I find it bizarre that women can decide that they don't want a baby and opt for a termination (just to clarify, I completely agree with this. It's her right to choice) but when a man decides now isn't the right time, right partner or whatever the reason - he's labelled a arsehole, good for nothing or irresponsible.

Surely if a woman has the right to say "no, not right now/not for me" a man should have the same right? Without being labelled or judged!

I've seen it a few times in real life, be it from a one night stand or a not so serious relationship. The woman wants to keep the baby, the man says he doesn't (but doesn't suggest an abortion), and he's thrown under the bus.

I know there is a big difference in some sense because obviously, the woman goes through all the physical changes/trauma of having a baby - but when are men then taken to court for CA or have knives shoved in their backs for not wanting a baby?

AIBU?

I was spat on in the street and he was cheered

That’s awful!

It’s the same for single parents too.

Some people think single mothers are something to be ashamed of and it’s somehow their fault.
Yet a single dad is something that is celebrated and he’s a hero for doing so.

@user57639206

Again to clarify, I do not endorse forced abortions or pregnancy on any woman.

I'm say why can a man not just walk away without stigma???

Because, OP, when you make a baby, accidentally or otherwise, you have to accept what you've done. You need to be grown ups about it. If the woman wants to continue and have the baby (which is her right, this is happening to and inside her body) and the man doesn't want a baby, he should still take some responsibility for that child.

Because - through something he presumably really really wanted to do, which does carry a small risk of creating an entire new human being - he has had a part in making a baby. Tough shit if he doesn't want to be a daddy yet. He can walk away in terms of contact maybe, but I would argue that he should still help support HIS child. Sex isn't a game and women do conceive. I think that a man who walks away from a mistake entirely, rather than growing a pair, growing up and taking the minimum responsibility, does indeed deserve stigma.

You've convinced me, OP. Equality sounds a good thing though it might require some state intervention to enable it. Risk of maternal death - equivalent % death imposed randomly on the father. Long-term Impact on maternal earnings - father has an additional tax. Any other suggestions, OP?

In the chicken and bacon senario the chicken can lay many many eggs and live the pig dies for a few rashers

Men are the chicken giving many people many eggs for breakfast

@PearPickingPorky

Pig makes bigger sacrifice than chicken in creating a sandwich. Woman has bigger sacrifice than man in raising a child.

I'm just saying I think men should be able to walk away from an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy

But they can and do, usually without any or very minor consequences. Stigma, what stigma? If it's an ONS, people wouldn't even know about it. If it was a relationship, all you need to do is to tell everybody how much you miss your children but your psycho ex won't let you see them. Based on the thousands and thousands of Mumsnetters who either get no child support or maybe 5 quid per week, it won't even affect your wallet. What more do you want?

We all know how babies are made so of course a man should be judged if he walks away. Women are judged for having abortions all the time, too, I'm surprised you thinking they don't. It's up to him to wear a condom or take the responsibility. It's not am either/or, either, both adults are responsible for risking a pregnancy every time they choose to have unprotected sex.

But @purpledaisies if she then goes a long with having the child knowing the man doesn't want to be involved is she then a potential idiot for bemoaning the situation after the child is born knowing the possibilities? After all after 12 weeks and the man stating he doesn't want to be involved there's more certainty at that time than say sex maybe resulting in pregnancy due to a contraceptive failure.

@user57639206

I seriously want to clarify I am not saying a woman should be forced into anything. The complete opposite, there are a million and one reasons to abort or continue any pregnancy and each is so unique, so relative and completely down to the woman.

I'm just saying I think men should be able to walk away from an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy but everyone jumps down their throat.

If you walk away entirely, I assume you mean also financially, you punish the child for your mistake. You need to make this decision before you get your dick out.

You may argue that it's not fair and you'd be right. Human reproduction isn't fair at all. It's not remotely equal and you can thank millions of years of evolution for that.

But you'd be mistaken if you think you are getting the short end of the stick. You will never have to deal with a pregnancy. You will never have to risk your life and your health to bring a new human into the world. Your body will never change as the result of a pregnancy. You will never end up bed-ridden because of complications surrounding the pregnancy. You will never have your bladder damaged by a pregnancy. You will never end up disbaled due to a pregnancy.

In short, for you there is little to no risk for you. You don't risk your health even remotely in a way that a woman does. You don't risk a hit to your career. In fact men who become fathers are more likely to get promoted. And you'll be a social media hero for changing just one diaper. Whereas mothers can never do enough for their children and are always blamed for tiniest little thing going wrong.

So do yourself and everyone a favor and stop whining. It isn't fair, but women bare the brunt of the consequences. Not you. So lay off.

OP I agree with you and it’s funny how some of these comments eg “they do have a choice, don’t have sex if they don’t want a baby!” are exactly the sort of things pro-lifers tell to women who seek an abortion.

In an ideal world, women would simply take into account whether the father wants involvement and if they are clear from the beginning that they don’t, then the pregnancy, if it proceeds should proceed on that basis (no involvement from father who becomes essentially a sperm donor) without stigma for the male.

In this day and age with contraception and readily available abortion (UK), and a loss of stigma around sex outside of marriage - all the previous societal rules about making men step up, aren’t really necessary like they were in the past.

But in a practical sense this just wouldn’t really work, say if a male could “opt out” before 12 weeks - what if the pregnancy is only discovered late? Is the onus on the woman to inform and get agreement in writing etc? I just don’t think it’s very practical.

But I agree that it’s a double standard.

Absolutely ridiculous. Comparing apples and oranges. The man has a right to contain his sperm to prevent the situation. If he chooses not to then what happens after that is completely out of his control and power

YABU.

A man can choose not to have sex if he does not wish to become a Father.

Completely unreasonable view, when condoms are perfectly reliable contraception.

Completely agree op. I think this forum is unbelievably biased towards women.
Should the man be able to dictate an abortion, no. Should a man be able to walk away with no responsibility for a child he said he didn't want, yes. Just like how if the woman didn't want a child she could have an abortion.
Yes a man can "abstein from sex" or wear a condom to avoid a pregenancy. BUT and a massive but, a woman could do exactly the same by using the pill and absteining from sex.

@ABCDEF1234

Completely agree op. I think this forum is unbelievably biased towards women. Should the man be able to dictate an abortion, no. Should a man be able to walk away with no responsibility for a child he said he didn't want, yes. Just like how if the woman didn't want a child she could have an abortion. Yes a man can "abstein from sex" or wear a condom to avoid a pregenancy. BUT and a massive but, a woman could do exactly the same by using the pill and absteining from sex.

So you’re another one who thinks the child should suffer?

It’s also so unfair to say men can and do walk away without stigma. For a decent guy who just doesn’t want a child that’s just such a shitty thing to happen to their life. Just because you don’t want to be a dad at all doesn’t mean you want to be someone’s deadbeat dad as an alternative to being a present father!

Women DO recieve stigma for terminations. They ARE called irresponsible, arseholes, stupid and much worse, they are called murderers.

I have never had a termination, nor would I ever have one as i do believe live starts at conception but i do respect and i honour every womans right to do what she feels right with her body, but i know many people who believe what I said above and would actively tell the woman going through this (not taking in consideration her personal circumstance).

No man nor woman should be forced to do what they dont want to do....if they were in a relationship he needs to man up and at least financially support the child. If one night stand he should have the right to walk away without any reproach. Although he would still be called. As would be the woman who had the one night stand and got pregnant.

@Allsorts1

OP I agree with you and it’s funny how some of these comments eg “they do have a choice, don’t have sex if they don’t want a baby!” are exactly the sort of things pro-lifers tell to women who seek an abortion.

In an ideal world, women would simply take into account whether the father wants involvement and if they are clear from the beginning that they don’t, then the pregnancy, if it proceeds should proceed on that basis (no involvement from father who becomes essentially a sperm donor) without stigma for the male.

In this day and age with contraception and readily available abortion (UK), and a loss of stigma around sex outside of marriage - all the previous societal rules about making men step up, aren’t really necessary like they were in the past.

But in a practical sense this just wouldn’t really work, say if a male could “opt out” before 12 weeks - what if the pregnancy is only discovered late? Is the onus on the woman to inform and get agreement in writing etc? I just don’t think it’s very practical.

But I agree that it’s a double standard.

A woman having an abortion at 6 weeks is not remotely the same as abandoning a six year old child. You people love to punish single mothers yet defend deadbeat fathers til your last breath. WHY? it's not about punishing the mother it's about raising the offspring who had no choice in whether they were conceived.

Couldn't give a shit if the mum is having one nighters every week. Child needs to be paid for if it's yours.

@Lemonlady22

Women could assert themselves and work to keep the child out of poverty. Many do !

And many women work full-time and their children are still in poverty.

Or may not be fair, but we live in a world that isstill HUGELY unfair towards women. Swings and roundabouts

@gwenneh look on this thread if we tot up the posts saying the men are idiots and villifying them and then do the same for women we both know it will be very one sided.

But they both had the same choices before conception, after conception is a whole different matter so in that case you saying single mothers are stigmatised is different also.

Absolutely men can decide they don't want a child If it's within a relationship it needs an open and honest discussion on the subject of contraception and what would occur if it failed. The woman should never be forced into having an abortion or going through with a pregnancy she doesn't want. If she did decide to go ahead then she forfeits the right to support from the man. He would have the right not to have his name on the birth certificate. A family member was on the pill from age 14 because of painful, heavy periods and when she was a student she had a rule for boyfriends of "no glove(condom) no love" I don't remember being told that anyone objected to her choosing to use double contraception

I'm a single parent recently I was accused of changing child's name to match mine "cutting there fathers out like the whore I am" apparently they have the same father and we were married that's why our names match ffs

Him on the other hand is praised for taking on another man's child the fact that he neglects a relationship with his own children is apparently my fault im not sure why? He moves away failed to show up take an interest all these things are left at MY DOOR and are seen as MY FAULT he is in his 40s ffs

@RedCandyApple

Unpopular opinion op but I agree with you and I think pp are missing the point op is not saying the woman should abort she’s saying the man shouldn’t have to step up and play dad to a child he didn’t want or pay maintenance for them.

I don’t claim child maintenance from my ex as he decided he wanted nothing to do with our children, I’m not going to force someone who wants nothing to do with our children to pay for them.

But then surely all of us end up paying for that child, because someone has to? So if a guy decides that he's doesn't fancy being a father we all (as a society) have to foot the bill. Can you imagine the cost to taxpayer if that would be an option? Plenty of men would just declare 'I don't want a child' and pass the responsibility to others.

Should a man be able to walk away with no responsibility for a child he said he didn't want, yes. Just like how if the woman didn't want a child she could have an abortion

Women have the right to abortion because pregnancy and birth can and result in death, disability for the mother. Abortion is about her rights over her body.

Both fathers and mothers can walk away once a child is born but do still need to both pay for that child. Because it's about the rights of the child.