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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Being offended by “womanface” (drag) is bizarre

158 replies

MrsWinters · 23/02/2022 16:41

Is anyone else thrown by the fact the Daily Mail has described the concept of being offended by drag as bizarre? I thought there was enough debate on the topic-and it has been going on for long enough to not be labelled as “bizarre”.
I’m not saying that I want to ban drag or anything, but surely I have a right to find it offensive? Otherwise aren’t we into the realms of thoughtcrime?

OP posts:

MangyInseam · 23/02/2022 17:19

OP, I think I agree with you. It's clearly controversial, so I can't see viewing it as bizarre. I suppose they may mean in the sense of "doesn't make sense" which is a matter of opinion, but it's not the clearest language.

I don't really think drag is "womanface". I don't think anyone is supposed to think drag queens look like women. Sexual presentation in our culture is tied to reproductive role, and that has always for some gay and lesbian people tended to interact in unusual ways with how they present themselves socially in terms of clothing etc. Drag is a kind of commentary or play on that and as such is really mainly interesting in a serious way to certain gay men.

It's not the same as comedy performers playing opposite sex roles, either, which has a different purpose and focus.

Why it's become popular more widely is another story and that is a little bizarre.

Wonnle · 23/02/2022 17:21

There must be a phobia for it , a bit like the one people have of clowns .
Most of them look like they should be in a circus act to me anyway

blacksax · 23/02/2022 17:24

It is an over-the top caricature. Personally I think it looks ridiculous, and like a pantomime dame on the way to the carnival in Rio, and as long as they don't expect to be taken seriously wearing such a ludicrous get-up, let them crack on.

nanbread · 23/02/2022 17:26

@VestaTilley

It is offensive. It’s womanface.

What about bio queens?

Pixiedust1234 · 23/02/2022 17:29

@Wonnle

There must be a phobia for it , a bit like the one people have of clowns . Most of them look like they should be in a circus act to me anyway

Oh....you might have hit the nail on the head for me here. Clowns freak me out

musicalfrog · 23/02/2022 17:31

Not saying there's nothing wrong with Drag, but you do get women dressing as men for comic effect e.g. French and Saunders,
Kathy Burke as Perry

Ooh a whole two examples from the last 40 years.

Drag is a whole fkn industry.

I'd really love someone to explain to me how it's any different from blackface. I've never seen any attempt at an explanation.

caranations · 23/02/2022 17:31

@VestaTilley

It is offensive. It’s womanface.

I don't know any real women who look remotely like that.

nanbread · 23/02/2022 17:32

@Itwasntmeright

I find it offensive, not because men are dressing in women’s clothing, but because they present grotesque exaggerations of sexist and misogynistic stereotypes and somehow it’s supposed to be hilarious and entertaining. If white people were to do black face and present grotesque exaggerations of racist stereotypes it wouldn’t be hilarious and entertaining, it would be racist and unacceptable, and rightly so. This is the daily fail though, so…

This is just not my experience of drag. They're rude, funny (or try to be), take the piss out of themselves/each other/the audience and their clothes/wigs, and sing a bit.

I don't see this as a grotesque exaggeration of stereotypes tbh.

I'm not a big fan of drag and do think there's some misogyny within parts of it, but your view seems outdated - or just plain wrong.

suggestionsplease1 · 23/02/2022 17:34

Drag kings have been around for ages.

But yeah, in general girls and women have a lot more freedom to dress a variety of ways without censure. Women and girls have been permitted socially to wear traditionally male clothes for many generations now.

Boys and men do not have that luxury, you only need to look at the feminism boards here to see the fury and accusations of perversion levelled at men that dare to step outside of conventional clothing for their sex.

Ant and Dec would have got it in the neck by a minority for whatever stereotypically female clothes they had chosen to wear; any dress or skirt whatsoever, or however 'conservative' would have been considered an affront by a few, there would always have been an angle on it.

It is good that boys and young men see that they too can step outside of conventional expectations for what they wear, just like women have been doing for generations and have established as a new norm. Perhaps it is their time to establish new norms and freedoms of expression.

Chely · 23/02/2022 17:34

🤣🤣 I think that show is total crap, not bothered about the drag part.

Duntelchaig · 23/02/2022 17:35

It’s not funny, and I’m not interested in it but iMm not offended. And if I was, never mind. I’d just be offended. And that’s fine. Nothing actually happens. Be offended or not. It doesn’t mean I want them all dragged off the stage and screamed at on Twitter any more than that should be happening to JKR. Live and let live.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/02/2022 17:37

I find it both misogynistic and tedious as fuck.

Lockheart · 23/02/2022 17:42

You have the right to find that offensive and other people have the right to find that offense bizarre.

Not sure you understand the meaning of thoughtcrime.

People finding your offense bizarre does not mean they're trying to ban you from being offended.

mistermagpie · 23/02/2022 17:42

I don't know any real women who look remotely like that.

Isn't that the point? Women don't look like that, but it's a mans exaggerated imagining of what being a woman is. It's the same reason that you find a lot of trans women dress in hyper feminine frilly/flowery stuff that a lot of biological women would never ever wear.

I'm not personally offended by drag as such, but I don't find it entertaining and the idea that dressing up in an approximation of opposite sex is hilarious seems quite childish to me.

Darley368 · 23/02/2022 17:43

I'm with "I find it both misogynistic and tedious as fuck"

One day people will look back and cringe in the same way as they do Benny Hill now.

Pixiedust1234 · 23/02/2022 17:43

@Duntelchaig

That would be fine if they stayed on stage instead of in libraries reading to kids, in primary schools interacting with kids, on mainstream TV programmes that families watch. Its fucking everywhere.

CallmeBadJanet · 23/02/2022 17:47

What's deeply offensive is how shit Ant and Dec were at drag.

VerveClique · 23/02/2022 17:47

It’s a highly sexualised parody of women. It does not celebrates women or lift them up in any way. It’s an interpretation of a specific type of woman by a particular man.

It’s totally unlike pantomime dames (lots of innuendo but not inherently sexualised). Not like women actors depicting male characters. Not just men wearing traditionally-feminine clothing.

I think it comes from the mainstreaming of pride > drag is a very visual part of pride > easy win for people who want to virtue signal their LGBTQI+ credentials via column inches and airtime > on the surface visually appealing > can easily be dropped into all sorts of stuff e.g. kids TV, libraries etc.

So a product of a complete lack of critical thought and consideration of appropriateness for the audience.

IMHO anyway.

Wonnle · 23/02/2022 17:52

@CallmeBadJanet

What's deeply offensive is how shit Ant and Dec were at drag.

It's not just in drag though is it

Tillymintpolo · 23/02/2022 17:52

Panto Dames ?
Principal boys. ?

Hasselhoffsheadband · 23/02/2022 17:52

Drag isn't just 'wearing feminine clothes'. That's what Harry Styles or John Maclean do, or like what some male 80s popstars did.

Drag is a whole caricature of womanhood. If it was just 'gender non-conformity' there would be no need for the giant comedy breasts or the exaggerated stereotypes about women being bitchy divas.

It's misogynistic and would not be acceptable about any other group of people.

Tillymintpolo · 23/02/2022 17:53

Is Mrs Brown’s boys woman face ? (I know it’s shit)

Mollysocks · 23/02/2022 17:53

Of course the DM don’t see anything wrong with it, just look at their ‘sidebar of shame’ all women bring torn to pieces. They just hate women end of story.

TattiePants · 23/02/2022 17:54

I don't know any real women who look remotely like that.

That’s the whole point, it’s not supposed to look like an actual woman. It’s an exaggerated and misogynist caricature of a woman. Have a google of Al Jolson in black face, have you ever seen a black person that looks like that? I know I haven’t.

CallMeDaddy58 · 23/02/2022 17:56

Thought crime? Oh Jesus Christ behave yourself! You are so desperate to be oppressed.

Calling your opinion on drag “bizarre” is not making it a thought crime for God’s sake. No one’s coming to lock you up are they? It’s called conversation. It’s called debate. I’d say someone not being able to say they think your opinion is bizarre is you oppressing their right to disagree with you.

You’re allowed to say you think drag is “woman face”.

People are allowed to say that opinion is bizarre.

No one is getting locked up for thought crimes.

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