Drag Queen at a Primary School - continuation thread here - https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4490413-Drag-Queen-at-a-Primary-School-Thread-2?watched=1

[Lennyllama]

What are your views on a drag queen visiting a primary school for the day? Think thigh high leather boots with short revealing dresses and a dance show. The drag queen spent the day at school. Did a show for KS2 and then went around to individual classes to read a story book. The school had a themed dress up day. The theme was This is Me. Parents were not informed that this would be happening and were not given the option to opt in or out of the experience. The school has a very diverse mix of cultures and religions. This particular queen is easily found online, the kids were told their stage name and their content is rather steamy.

YANBU- It’s inappropriate
YABU- It’s appropriate

I have name changed for this.

I would be making formal complaints.

I object to drag due to the image of ‘women’ it portrays.

I've just seen your post with the picture of his outfit 😱 what are they thinking??? Totally inappropriate.

[quote Lennyllama]@ElPolloLoco It gets worse unfortunately.. not only has the DQ identified the school, but numerous teachers including the head teacher have commented on the post thanking the DQ for giving the kids a lovely day![/quote]
Oh my goodness - DQST does seem to make schools lose all concept of safeguarding.

I have just come across a DQ called ‘Miss Tesstickle’ proudly posing with a primary school class they visited. An organisation called Educate and Celebrate was involved.

As another poster said, this is about eroding boundaries around children - who benefits from that?

Complain, complain, complain. And make it formal, rather than informal.

This is wholly inappropriate.

I wish our school would encourage more of this kind of thing. Not as the only message about diversity, but one among many. Not only does it not bother me, I'd actively encourage it.

One of the things that bothers me about this is that schools have limited time and an over-pressurised agenda to deliver, so need to target what they do thoughtfully and intelligently.

This day at the school was 'This is me.' But drag queens only exist in a professional context. You would only come across one when they are already in safe space as a performer.
There are plenty of people who get shit just for living their normal lives. If the goal was to increase tolerance and acceptance, why not have one of them in? Someone like a male orthodox Jew? Someone with Down's Syndrome? Someone with an obvious physical disability like cerebral palsy? Or someone with a hidden disability that people can react negatively to, like someone with autism, who can talk about why they are the way they are.

Or if the goal is to expand the children's horizons beyond limitations, why not someone in a job not typically associated with their sex, such as a man who works in Early Years? Or a female fire-fighter or a woman with a position of leadership in the armed forces?

There are so many useful ways this time could have been used rather than get a man in, in his professional role that is only open to men.

And drag has absolutely nothing to do with sexuality. I speak as a lesbian in my sixties, I also speak as someone who, like millions of both straight and gay women, has never conformed to typical depictions of either masculinity or femininity in how I present. Drag literally drags us back decades in the attempt to free ourselves from gender stereotypes. Gender has fuck all to do with sexual orientation!

@Chattycaterpillar I'd say there's nothing wrong with it, but primary school is not the place due to the sexualised nature of what they're wearing and how they perform.

Quite aside from how I feel about the misogynistic, woman face aspect of this, they would NEVER EVER invite a woman exotic performer doing and wearing the same thing. So why is it ok for a man to do it?

I'd be furious Op. I bloody LOVE a bit of drag, lots of my friends are DQ's and I spend a lot of time at drag events.

But it is adult entertainment that is COMPLETELY inappropriate for children and especially school. Way too sexualised.

Exposing children to over sexualised behaviour and outfits is grooming. It really upsets me, as it gives people who DO understand boundaries and appropriate behaviour around children a bad name! I don't want my mates lumped in with these muppets.

Rule of thumb surely is, a drag Queen or trans woman shouldn’t be doing or wearing anything that you wouldn’t allow any other woman or man to do/ wear in a school. They’re just people, which works both ways!

@frazzledali

I wish our school would encourage more of this kind of thing. Not as the only message about diversity, but one among many. Not only does it not bother me, I'd actively encourage it.

But as per my previous post, drag queens only exist in a professional context. If you really wanted to teach about diversity surely you would target that on people who are living real lives. You could have butch lesbians, effeminate men, people with a range of disabilities, people visibly in their dress from different religious communities. You know, people who represent real life diversity rather than male-only jobs (as drag queen is a male only job). Or, as I say, people working in jobs where their sex is massively under-represented.

If you want a message about diversity., why not do it in a real life and meaningful context (rather than people from a fantasy character that exists only in a professional context, and a single sex professional context at that).

I would obviously not do this in reality because I'd be too afraid, but the film version of me would turn up for pick up and drop off in revealing sexy clothes like the ones that drag queen is wearing, wait for them to raise its inappropriate, and then come down on them with the fury of the lord for sexism and hypocrisy.

A man in women’s clothing as you describe is so utterly self indulgent and rubbish.
As a child I identified as a horse, so should i have cantered into the classroom snorting and wearing a tail?

I don't think men dressed as women are inappropriate per se, otherwise we wouldn't take kids to pantomimes. Drag queens and pantomime dames come from the same entertainment tradition but in the last 80 years DQs have become their own subculture which is inextricably linked to gay sexual culture. Nothing wrong with that but it is not appropriate for children as it is inherently sexualised - that is the point of the subculture.

the topic 'This is me', in the context of a DQ, is also evidently intended to appeal to gender identity theory - agin not suitable for primary school kids.

@somanylies you have it completey right when you said they should have had someone with a visible disability, or disfigurement, or visible minority religion. That would be a much better and healthier way to learn about difference, acceptance and common humanity.

How on earth is having white men in womanface, with names like FloJob Queen and Miss Tesstickle, striking a bat for diversity?

I'm imagining the children saying 'Good afternoon, Miss Tesstickle' in unison, as they do for teachers. Or FloJob introducing himself to the class - 'Hello kids, I'm FloJob Queen'.

Would the school welcome female adult entertainers with the same names/outfits in the same way I wonder?

The school had a themed dress up day. The theme was This is Me.

If it wasn’t a theme dress up day then I’d have said it was completely inappropriate but as it was then it is fine.

A lot of children struggle with wanting to wear clothes that aren’t manufactured for their sex - this can cause all sorts of issues but a main one being they believe they’re the wrong gender just because they want to wear pink sparkly unicorns but there’s none in the boy section or a big blue oversized fortnite t-shirt that isn’t in the girls section.

So I can definitely see why they thought this was a good idea and the only thing it will do is make the children not judge someone for the clothes they wear - so I can’t really see any downsides to it.

Although if I was being picky I would prefer to have someone who wasn’t an entertainer and had a ‘proper’ job.

@AgathaAllAlong

I would obviously not do this in reality because I'd be too afraid, but the film version of me would turn up for pick up and drop off in revealing sexy clothes like the ones that drag queen is wearing, wait for them to raise its inappropriate, and then come down on them with the fury of the lord for sexism and hypocrisy.

Don't forget to tell them you've changed your name to Betty Ballgobbler and insist you're referred to as such at all times, too.

@somanylies

One of the things that bothers me about this is that schools have limited time and an over-pressurised agenda to deliver, so need to target what they do thoughtfully and intelligently.

This day at the school was 'This is me.' But drag queens only exist in a professional context. You would only come across one when they are already in safe space as a performer.
There are plenty of people who get shit just for living their normal lives. If the goal was to increase tolerance and acceptance, why not have one of them in? Someone like a male orthodox Jew? Someone with Down's Syndrome? Someone with an obvious physical disability like cerebral palsy? Or someone with a hidden disability that people can react negatively to, like someone with autism, who can talk about why they are the way they are.

Or if the goal is to expand the children's horizons beyond limitations, why not someone in a job not typically associated with their sex, such as a man who works in Early Years? Or a female fire-fighter or a woman with a position of leadership in the armed forces?

There are so many useful ways this time could have been used rather than get a man in, in his professional role that is only open to men.

The only truly underrepresented group in the UK are the disabled

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

Drag is womanface imo, and a kink.

Neither of those are appropriate in this (or most public) setting(s).

“Womanface” Spot on. Not at all suitable for young kids. Lots of kids have two mums and gay dads Nothing wrong promoting this as diversity instead of a man in “ sexy” woman’s clothing.

Contact the school with a list of potential positive role models who could come into school and read their favourite story. Find articles about why stereotypes are harmful to boys and girls. Ask them who else they are inviting in for 'This is me' and what the learning objectives are. Ask them about their portrayal of positive female role models. Ask for a list of invited guests for the past three years as well as any fees paid to them. When you get that.. Point out the disparity, if there is one.. between males and females. Ask them if they are trying to teach their boys they can be whatever they want but their girls should be invisible.

A lot of children struggle with wanting to wear clothes that aren’t manufactured for their sex

Surely it's better to educate them that clothes aren't gendered, and you can wear/be/do anything regardless of your sex, than to invite to school an adult entertainer whose act is mired in misogyny?

@chattycaterpillar

Maybe I'm being thick , but surely it's no different to kids seeing a pantomime dame ?

In fact, surely it's a good thing for the gender critical movement. Drag queen's are men who like to wear feminine clothing, surely it's okay to say there is nothing wrong with that.

Obviously assuming the act at a primary school would be family friendly.

Pantomime Dames and the “Robin Hood” being a woman in thigh high boots is tradition. Having “Womanface” in a school is just right onnery taken too far.