Drag Queen at a Primary School - continuation thread here - https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4490413-Drag-Queen-at-a-Primary-School-Thread-2?watched=1

[Lennyllama]

What are your views on a drag queen visiting a primary school for the day? Think thigh high leather boots with short revealing dresses and a dance show. The drag queen spent the day at school. Did a show for KS2 and then went around to individual classes to read a story book. The school had a themed dress up day. The theme was This is Me. Parents were not informed that this would be happening and were not given the option to opt in or out of the experience. The school has a very diverse mix of cultures and religions. This particular queen is easily found online, the kids were told their stage name and their content is rather steamy.

YANBU- It’s inappropriate
YABU- It’s appropriate

I have name changed for this.

@ChateauMargaux

Teenage girls get sanctioned for having skirts that are too short, socks that are wrong an for having visible bras through their regulation school shirts and for wearing concealer to hide their spots.... and yet a man is invited into a primary school dressed as a parody of a woman and that is OK?

Of course. Males can do as they please and women are expected to applaud, or at best be quiet.

Girls must do as they're told.

Some people are so obtuse.

The fact that SOME parents, (and I don't know any personally,) would take their primary school aged children to a little mix concert has absolutely fuck all to do with whether adult entertainment should be in primary schools. Like seriously are you that incapable of understanding the difference between school and all the safeguarding that entails and what parents allow their children to do on their own time.

I mean one of the many reasons we have safe guarding in schools is because we recognise that SOME parents aren't very good at it. We teach children appropriate boundaries, often to try and counteract any damaging messages they will be receiving outside of school.

Just because some parents don't see anything wrong with exposing their children to adult sexual entertainment doesn't mean we throw all the children under the bus. Jesus fucking christ.

@SoupDragon

The bottom line is that drag queens are adult entertainment.

I'd have no issue with a pantomime dame or a transgender person in ordinary clothing but drag queens are for adults only. As are lap dancers for example.

Agree, I know a man who dressed in woman's clothes complete with make up. Nobody commented at school including the kids, it wasn't a big thing and this was over 20 years ago He just dressed in normal clothes

@EeeICouldRipATissue

never seems to be a nice lesbian couple who are just getting on with living their lives Yes, think that would be good too - a lesbian couple and a gay couple coming in to read stories /talk about themselves. Something tells me a lot of people would have a problem with that too though

Where on earth have you read anything here that tells you that?

X 100's if posters ahead of you have already expressed frustration that "This is Me" never shows gay men or lesbians, a person in a wheelchair, why is drag showcased?

@DomesticatedZombie

See through dress, through which underwear is visible, and stiletto heels. Totally fine, then.

Stiletto heels may not be fashionable currently but they’re pretty mainstream. I think criticism of that image is clutching at straws. Particularly contrasted to the many others posted on this thread.

But if flesh on display isn't a valid criteria for an outfit being sexual or inappropriate, why are female teachers not allowed to wear short skirts with ""too much"" leg showing? Because there is an assumption that the legs in a skirt showing too much are in some way sexual and inappropriate.

Yeah, I never really understood that. Women's legs aren't sexual but too much leg out is "wrong". Likewise, spaghetti strap tops worn by students in America that reveal arms and shoulders aren't sexual, but for some reason too much shoulder is deemed sexual, like the legs. Shoulders and legs are provocative to some people I suppose.

Nope sorry wide awake was at work. Flojob perhaps isn't the best name for someone entertaining young kids but really are they going to make the connection to anything more adult?

//

An individual with such a stage name who would read to kids knowing they are oblivious to the names meaning is one dodgy fucker. Again, boundaries, normalising sexually overt language.

For whose benefit?

@UnevenBooks

The whole point is to parody women/femininity

Is parodying feminity the same as parodying women though? We should really be separating feminity from being so closely linked to women. It could be argued they are parodying the femininity expected of women by society - heels, looking sexy, makeup, being sexual for men etc, rather than the women themselves.

Not saying I think it's appropriate in schools, so this isn't a defense question, just a question.

Yes they're parodying women when they wear false breasts and hips and bums. If it was femininity they were parodying they would just wear clothes and make up.

A man dressing in drag is a kink imo

You think they all get off on it? Isn't that autogynephilia? I think that's different, although like cross-dressers in general, there will be overlap. Some women also perform as either queens or kings. I guess I'd think of it more like a Venn diagram.

Not saying it's ok, from the fact they can easily find the more adult material online, but I don't think it's objectively a kink thing.

Yes they're parodying women when they wear false breasts and hips and bums. If it was femininity they were parodying they would just wear clothes and make up.

But again, society expects women to have a certain body, hence all the surgeries and lip fillers being a thing. The look they give is usually very "fake woman" which is more a parody of the ideal female body type and extreme femininity.

Why are you expecting children to be able to dissect the nuances and complex social commentary of stereotypes?

Clearly you understand child development not one bit. Children learn first by overextension, then by catagorising, then by exception. (All fluffy creatures are dogs, then they know dogs bark and have four legs and a waggy tail , then they begin to understand nuance to sort wolves, pugs etc.) Early understanding is very black and white. Sarcasm and parody etc are not suitable until upper keystage 2 and even then imperfectly.

And since many adults don't get the so called nuance and subtly of drag, why would children?

I mean, a gimp suit covers pretty much everything but that is clearly inappropriate

Coming to a school near you any time soon ... when boundaries are pushed by the kind of groups mentioned, it doesn't take long for others to join the queue

Why are you expecting children to be able to dissect the nuances and complex social commentary of stereotypes?

You're mistaking my question about whether they parody women or whether they parody the stereotype of women/feminity, as defending them being in schools. I didn't say children would be able to, nor that it was appropriate for them.

Ah well glad you think children shouldn't be exposed to abstract use of stereotypes then.

I get cross that a lot of people take children's acceptance to be because they are higher minded and capable of taking on liberal adult concepts.

Children are accepting by nature. That's wonderful. They're children. But with that acceptance comes a naivety and vulnerability.

I don't like that people weaponsise this quality of children against them and their parents. Children lack the critical thinking until they are 25 to fully assess danger and consequence as their brains are still maturing. So adults are meant to do that for them.

That means keeping adult ideas and concepts put of school until age appropriate. It's not hard.

And I think the most disappointing thing about this whole story is that this decision was made by one (male?) Head, who either didn't consult or ignored the collective wealth of his staff. I am telling you now, there is no way at least one member of staff wouldn't have spotted the flaws in this 'plan'.
Unfortunately, if things do get bad for the school with scrutiny from Ofsted etc the head will leave and it will be the other staff dealing with the aftermath.

I think it's highly inappropriate. And I bet if a female teacher went into school in similar clothing wearing a similar style of hair/make up, words would be had!

Supporters of the DQ have been sharing his post on FB calling the visit wholesome (wtf?) and someone has identified him on Twitter. The DQ is Dolly Trolley.

And actually the outfit is bloody awful

@FlasherMcGruff

Would the school be okay with a female teacher wearing that dress and those boots to teach in? To parents’ evening? To show prospective parents around the school? Maybe they should think about why their answer is no.

This is an excellent question .... any non-pearl clutches types care to answer?

Because I'd safeguarding is done properly then visitors should be held to the same standards as female teachers and staff.

I wonder how many young girls around the country have this morning on arrival at school had a word in their ear about their skirt being a bit on the short side

@WellThatsMeScrewed

Also why can’t we be a bit more imaginative about teaching acceptance.

How come we can’t have men in women’s ‘every day’ clothing? Just doing stuff? Not overly dressed?

Or as someone said upthread a woman in a boiler suit talking about fixing the plumbing?

If we want to break down gender stereotypes please tell me how a woman dressed in the MOST stereotypical way of a women breaks these down? This only harms women.

👏 👏

Yeah. Just looked up 'Dolly Trolly'. My child would not attend that school again until the Head had been removed. I'd probably be looking for a private school.

Ask the questions..

Does this fit with the ethos of the school?
Are invited guests representative of the school's population?
Do students get to see themselves and their families represented? Ethnicity, sex, disability... if diversity only extends to white males parodying women, then your school has a problem. Are positive female role models visible in the school?
If the school parents fund paid for this.. start with the chair of the PTA but also request a zoom meeting with the chair of governors and an in person meeting with the head... do not accept covid measures as a fob off... they have let someone non essential and external in to engage with multiple year groups

I'm a fan of drag race , I will get flames but I really like Ru Paul and enjoy watching the acts , their stories of their life and I love seeing the runway costume etc
Drag acts when you want to book to see them if I remember right usually have a 18 and over policy , I'm not sure about the current uk drag race tour ... I think some people have been taking their kids over 9 so I can't say for sure
I'm really happy for my 9 year old to learn about drag and every other way of life that needs acceptance
Even as a fan of drag race I'm not sure what the point of a drag act going into school is , if it was to give a talk about drag itself And what made them what to become a drag Queen I understand but I'm not sure what the point of a performance is , it would also work better in a secondary school I'm sure

Posting again for anyone who hasn’t watched this:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=iuMic0cVw4Y

@OvaHere

Back in 2017 a secondary school female teacher was suspended for a 'sultry' photo she posted to her own social media. (disclaimer: no idea if there was more to this story)

metro.co.uk/2017/04/01/teacher-suspended-after-posting-provocative-selfie-on-facebook-6546910/

Fast forward to the 2020s and now men in skimpy outfits and kinky boots called TessTickle and FloJob are considered a wonderful way to pass the day for primary aged children.

What the hell has happened to safeguarding and appropriateness? It's like a collective brain fall out.

She was a real she, so doesn't count