Drag Queen at a Primary School - continuation thread here - https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4490413-Drag-Queen-at-a-Primary-School-Thread-2?watched=1

[Lennyllama]

What are your views on a drag queen visiting a primary school for the day? Think thigh high leather boots with short revealing dresses and a dance show. The drag queen spent the day at school. Did a show for KS2 and then went around to individual classes to read a story book. The school had a themed dress up day. The theme was This is Me. Parents were not informed that this would be happening and were not given the option to opt in or out of the experience. The school has a very diverse mix of cultures and religions. This particular queen is easily found online, the kids were told their stage name and their content is rather steamy.

YANBU- It’s inappropriate
YABU- It’s appropriate

I have name changed for this.

This would piss me off not because I clutch pearls at clothing but because drag is a gross appropriation of womanhood and I’m actually gobsmacked that this deeply offensive trend is so popular.

Crikey blimey some people must be really zooming in on their phones to try and get a glimpse!

Back in 2017 a secondary school female teacher was suspended for a 'sultry' photo she posted to her own social media. (disclaimer: no idea if there was more to this story)

metro.co.uk/2017/04/01/teacher-suspended-after-posting-provocative-selfie-on-facebook-6546910/

Fast forward to the 2020s and now men in skimpy outfits and kinky boots called TessTickle and FloJob are considered a wonderful way to pass the day for primary aged children.

What the hell has happened to safeguarding and appropriateness? It's like a collective brain fall out.

45Bintymcbintface
Mrs Brown
Widow Twanky
Lilly Savage
May McFetridge
Dame Edna

I truly think a lot of the outrage here is coming from some ridiculous fear that women are being "erased" and a man in a dress has spooked that part. The OP didn't say that the performance was in any way sexual, nor was the outfit worn by the DQ offensive or revealing. No children and teachers couldn't wear it because uniform and professional dress. A performer wouldn't be expected to follow those rule

With any luck Binty's fallen asleep

Binty If you add Flo Job to your list of names above, can you spot the difference??? Which one do you think would be the least appropriate name for children to hear?
I've been to plenty of pantos and I can safely delay that my children have never been introduced to a character called FloJob.
The fact that the (increasingly angry) local MP (with the very questionable judgement) not only endorsed it, accompanied Flo into the school and then attacked anyone who questioned it as bigoted just shows how bizarre things have become.
I presumed the Scottish situation was a ridiculous one-off. Clearly not!
Stop the bus I want to get off.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

You've just linked pictures of a drag queen in a jumpsuit? How is that not appropriate wear, it's pretty covered up

Have you ever felt that you had trouble understanding social expectations?

Just wondering, because I'm happy to be kind and informative to someone who struggles with social boundaries, but I don't want to explain it to you as I would do to a ten year old with special needs if you're just an adult who didn't look at the pictures properly.

I've commented since that, so will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are actually an adult capable of reading on a bit further.

Seriously I don't add a strap on penis when I wear trousers or should all women be doing this

Maybe you should read what I was replying to? Someone who called all cross-dressing a paraphilia.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

Crikey blimey some people must be really zooming in on their phones to try and get a glimpse!

Nice attempt at trying to shame us for... noticing these photos that he placed on his Facebook Business Page. I think you'll find zero zooming is necessary if you're looking at his official page with the intent of making a booking, as a headteacher or librarian would be.

Would you like to ponder on how clear this outline might have been to the children who he is pictured with? Or would you like to claim any children who noticed were perverts for looking?

think you'll find zero zooming is necessary if you're looking at his official page
I'm on about the photos posted on here we were told to look at and to see were inappropriate.

I'm a little bit on the fence about this one. However, it does annoy me that 'diversity' is massively male dominated. It never seems to be a nice lesbian couple who are just getting on with living their lives.

People keep thinking I was using women in suits and trousers as a comparison to drag queens, I wasn't.

Someone said cross-dressing is a paraphilia. Cross-dressing just means wearing clothes made for the opposite sex. That is not necessarily a paraphilia.

This is Dolly Trolley!

never seems to be a nice lesbian couple who are just getting on with living their lives
Yes, think that would be good too - a lesbian couple and a gay couple coming in to read stories /talk about themselves.
Something tells me a lot of people would have a problem with that too though

@EeeICouldRipATissue

think you'll find zero zooming is necessary if you're looking at his official page I'm on about the photos posted on here we were told to look at and to see were inappropriate.

Let's look at what was actually said in that post, accompanying the pictures.

I said:

Why is a man who posts pictures like this on his business page still getting booked?

Surely you can work out that the pictures on his business page would be larger than any copies posted on an MN thread? Did you only glance at the pictures, without even reading the accompanying text? Bit odd. You should be careful doing that.

If the outline of an adult's penis is visible in a photo of a children's event, wouldn't it also be visible to the children pictured at the event?

The thing that would get my back up the most is the fact the school chose not to inform parents. I'm not afraid to complain when I feel its justified so I would definitely raise a complaint if this happened at my children's school.

Lots of children's entertainers advertise on facebook in my community facebook group. Personally, if I were looking for a children's entertainer, and I clicked through on an ad to see pictures like that on the business profile, I'd nope out.

Accidents happen with clothes, but if someone has posted pictures of it happening again and again and again, I would not feel happy about employing him to entertain my kid and other party guests.

I expect school leadership staff and library staff to be at least as equally rigorous as me when employing entertainers.

@OshaOsha

The origin of drag is male misogynistic

I wasn't talking about drag. Someone said "cross-dressing is a paraphelia". Cross-dressing isn't just drag queens, it's anyone wearing clothes not made for their sex. It isn't always a sexual thing. Either sex should be able to wear clothes stereotypically for the other sex. The only reason it's even called "cross-dressing" is because of the idea that certain clothes are only for one sex.

I think lots of people are ok with this theoretically, the problem is that often there is not any way to be clear about why the individual is cross dressing.

If it's someone like a rock star on a photo shoot, or someone done up in New Romantic type garb, great. But when you see some guy done up in a skirt and high heels, there is always the possibility in the background that it might be a fetish. Because that kind of thing does often seem to be how certain men express that type of fetish, especially the shoe element.

I think the idea of complete gender neutrality in clothing is probably unrealistic, so any time people positively cross a clear barrier on things like that, people wonder if it's about the thing, or about crossing the barrier, and why they want to do that.

For those who throw out words such as pearl-clutching, narrow-minded etc. please know that they really don’t have the impact you think they do.

I don’t think anyone on here is saying that all drag queens are out there for nefarious purposes. I’m certainly not saying that. I find the current “trend” a bit tiresome, but I think that about numerous things that come and go. Personally, I have no desire to go to a drag show, but equally I’m not going to judge any friends for going - we are all adults after all.

But kids don’t need to be exposed to them. It’s wrong on so many levels, that have been outlined on this thread and others like it.

Safeguarding is there for a reason. Safe spaces are there for a reason. And if you’re trying to justify arguments against those two fundamentals then you are so far away from “be kind” that it’s laughable.

Safeguarding has failed in SO many ways in recent decades. On many occasions because of turning a blind eye, making light of, disbelieving those who came forward, not acting in case you’re called a bigot. So many excuses for safeguarding failing. Again, this is NOT saying that DQs are there for nefarious reasons. Rather that their act/dress/appearance is for adults to decide whether or not they want to view.

To ram home how important safeguarding is, I suggest you look up a short video. I’m not going to link it, but just google “Tom O’Carroll interview”. Pretty much the first hit should be a YT clip of around 3mins50secs. Do NOT underestimate the lengths that groups of people will go to in order to have access to children. Do NOT underestimate the length of time they’re prepared to take to lay the groundwork. Do NOT underestimate the people that they will use to achieve these goals. It’s been said that many peadophiles will lay the groundwork as a gift to the next one down the line.

THAT is why safeguarding is so important. It’s not about tarring every group with the same brush. It’s about putting the safety of vulnerable groups before the feelings of adults.

Sometimes, I wonder if we’ve become a bit blasé about risk or kind of numb to the stories that come out. The fact that we’ve kind of forgotten the shocked reaction re hearing the news about scouts, early years football training, grooming gangs, highly popular personalities, churches.

My feelings about drag from an adult point of view are one thing - I don’t like it, but am not going to go to battle with someone who does. But drag, for kids, is wrong on many levels.

Nope sorry wide awake was at work. Flojob perhaps isn't the best name for someone entertaining young kids but really are they going to make the connection to anything more adult?

The DQ from the OP clearly didn't put on an explicit performance or it would have been mentioned by now, from the picture of this particular performer they weren't wearing anything overtly sexual, they looked more like a cheesy magician's assistant if anything.

Drag isn't out to make a mockery of women, for the most part they make fun of men, members of their adult audience like a lot of other comedians, other DQs and themselves, they know they don't look like women and acknowledge that they're blokes in women's clothing.

The majority of the people on this thread are up in arms about a man in a dress WHO WAS INVITED BY THE SCHOOL, reading a book to kids... That is imo insane

@EeeICouldRipATissue

Crikey blimey some people must be really zooming in on their phones to try and get a glimpse!

Tis weird, the threads you jump on to defend - and then others that you choose to completely ignore! I guess there’s a limit to what you’d try to justify.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

never seems to be a nice lesbian couple who are just getting on with living their lives Yes, think that would be good too - a lesbian couple and a gay couple coming in to read stories /talk about themselves. Something tells me a lot of people would have a problem with that too though

That is a new low! Even for you.

@musicviking1

The thing that would get my back up the most is the fact the school chose not to inform parents. I'm not afraid to complain when I feel its justified so I would definitely raise a complaint if this happened at my children's school.

I just can't figure out what teacher or head would deliberately choose a guest who they knew would be controversial for a lot of parents.

They give all this lip service for example around respecting religious diversity in new immigrant families - do they think something like this is going to be a great for for families like that? Or will they end up pulling their kids from school?

To me it's just completely disrespectful that in a school with a captured group of children from families of all different kinds, they think it is ok to bring in guests without thought to those families.

What else are they going to do, bring i people to talk about other divisive social issues to the kids?

Omg. Yes you know it's inappropriate

That is a new low! Even for you
What, why?
Was I referring to you?
If not, why take it so personally?
I do think a lot of people would have a problem with a lesbian or a gay couple '' out'' together reading stories and/or talking about their lives.
Unless you're saying homophobia isn't a problem?!

Nobody is saying that safeguarding isn't important, of course it is and I am sure that the school were careful to make sure that the DQ was properly vetted and checked to be around children. I think it's really unfair this keeps being thrown out, would the same safeguarding thing be shouted about the local beekeeper visiting or a farmer?

I've said it countless times, just because DQs usually do adult shows doesn't mean they don't cater to younger audiences. Kids probably found the man in the dress funny.

If you think drag queens are making a mockery of women and feminity that's on you, a child isn't in harms way seeing a DQ reading a book.