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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Drag Queen at a Primary School - continuation thread here - https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4490413-Drag-Queen-at-a-Primary-School-Thread-2?watched=1

999 replies

Lennyllama · 23/02/2022 11:22

What are your views on a drag queen visiting a primary school for the day? Think thigh high leather boots with short revealing dresses and a dance show. The drag queen spent the day at school. Did a show for KS2 and then went around to individual classes to read a story book. The school had a themed dress up day. The theme was This is Me. Parents were not informed that this would be happening and were not given the option to opt in or out of the experience. The school has a very diverse mix of cultures and religions. This particular queen is easily found online, the kids were told their stage name and their content is rather steamy.

YANBU- It’s inappropriate
YABU- It’s appropriate

I have name changed for this.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
Bintymcbintface · 23/02/2022 15:23

Oh come on I mentioned bees in bonnets too

CIaireFraser · 23/02/2022 15:24

Also Binty, wrt to being 'closed minded - I'm bisexual with a gay DD and in my younger days was a fetish model/performance artist.

All of which makes my misogyny radar incredibly well honed.

Franca123 · 23/02/2022 15:25

What is it with fucking drag queens? BBC is obsessed with them. I never thought about them at until a year or so ago when they were suddenly everywhere. I'd be fuming. The misogynistic clothes and make up. The sexual nature. The massaging of my child's boundaries? Depending on the school's response to my complaint I might well be looking for a new school as I just think I could trust these adults tbh.

Whatamesssss · 23/02/2022 15:25

@Bintymcbintface Obviously their behaviour was exaggerated but their appearance was typical for the time.

Bintymcbintface · 23/02/2022 15:26

@CIaireFraser

My word people here really are very close minded and uppity

Why am I not shocked to see that someone who celebrates misogynistic female impersonators also uses racist, sexist slurs?

@Bintymcbintface

What on earth did I say that was racist of misogynistic?
SamphiretheStickerist · 23/02/2022 15:26

@WonderfulYou

But somehow I, like the many transmen and women who could have been called upon, just aren't outre enough, lack sequins and sexuality.

Because they’re not talking about trans people right now, so they’re not going to call on a trans person.

I’m sure they spoke about trans people which they rightly should but they should also speak about how it’s fine to not be a stereotype and wear certain clothing and that doesn’t mean that you were born in the wrong body.
Which I think is a great message to send.

Yes they could have got a cross dresser that wasn’t so glamorous/OTT but someone who entertains for a living is going to be more engaging than someone who doesn’t.
I’m assuming this particular DQ does this regularly to explain why they do it which is why they asked them.

Having a DQ doesn’t take away from trans rights which I fully support but it just shows that you can dress however you want but still identify as the sex you were born.

One more time...

If it is the stereotype they are trying to explode then why choose the acme of it?

Sod being born in the wrong body - that is a message they CANNNOT give, see DfE guidance.

You seem to have mixed yourself up there. They are not talkiing about being trans but are somehow still talking about clothing being born in the wrong body!?!?!

You also seem to have misunderstood me. I didn't say a DQ was or was not a transperson, or have anything to do with being trans. I did actually said that a transperson would have been a better choice.

As I have said before. If you cannot see that anything this hyper sexualised does not belong in a primary school then you are part of the ongoing problem!

Bintymcbintface · 23/02/2022 15:27

[quote Whatamesssss]@Bintymcbintface Obviously their behaviour was exaggerated but their appearance was typical for the time.[/quote]
I've seen women wear the same things that drag queens wear. Rather than seeing them as men taking the piss out of women, why not view them as someone with horrible fashion sense?

CIaireFraser · 23/02/2022 15:28

@Bintymcbintface look up the reasons why 'uppity' is a slur.

CIaireFraser · 23/02/2022 15:29

I've seen women wear the same things that drag queens wear. Rather than seeing them as men taking the piss out of women, why not view them as someone with horrible fashion sense?

Is this for real?!

mummykel16 · 23/02/2022 15:30

a person with dementia would be inappropriate as it might be scary or confusing for them to do something so out of their routine.

Children coming to our care home actually seemed to help the adults and the children, great to see

VeryLongBeeeeep · 23/02/2022 15:30

A transman is a woman who eschews femininity, societal notions of what it is to be female. They do embrace masculinity, the societal notions of what it is to be male

A transwoman eschews masculinity, societal notions of what it is to be male. They do embrace femininity, the societal notions of what it is to be female

Neither use hypersexualised clothing, make up etc to 'live' that message.

So many things wrong with this!

Many, if not most, transmen refuse to accept they are still women, to the point that language has had to be changed to accommodate their demands. Look at the furore that surrounded J K Rowling for stating only women have periods. Look at the wording on the packaging on most sanitary protection these days. See how language in medical settings has been changed to things like "people with a cervix" rather than "woman", which puts at risk the health - even the lives - of women with additional learning needs or women for whom English is not a first language, if they do not realise that "person with a cervix" applies to them and therefore they do not take up appointments for cervical smears. Look at the lawsuits demanding transmen who give birth be named as the father on the baby's birth certificate, not the mother.

Similarly, most transwomen do not accept they are male despite the fact the vast majority (in the region of 85%) retain their male genitalia. Hence the incessant demands to access women's single-sex spaces, at the expense of many sexual abuse survivors, women of certain faiths, otherwise vulnerable women and girls who can now not use those spaces. Hence the situation where rape crisis centres have male CEOs, NHS staff gaslight a confused elderly woman into believing her ward is single sex when she can see with her own eyes the male bodied person in the bed opposite, women's prisons giving out contraceptives because male-bodied inmates are housed with women at their request and promptly rape them.

And if you believe transwomen do not wear hypersexualised clothing, you haven't been paying attention. I won't say more, other than perhaps take a look on the Transwidows threads for descriptions of what a certain subset of transwomen like to wear.

Transpeople are, with a few exceptions, the walking embodiment of sex stereotypes: I wear a dress and heels, therefore I am a woman.

Bintymcbintface · 23/02/2022 15:30

[quote CIaireFraser]@Bintymcbintface look up the reasons why 'uppity' is a slur.[/quote]
"can be taken as racist when applied to people of colour" didn't know that but wasn't referring to anyone of colour so 🤷‍♀️ apologies if anyone was offended but certainly wasn't intended in that way

Whatamesssss · 23/02/2022 15:31

@Bintymcbintface

I've seen women wear the same things that drag queens wear. Rather than seeing them as men taking the piss out of women, why not view them as someone with horrible fashion sense

WTF has that got to do with this particular subject? Are these women you talk of, going into schools and performing?

Sarahcoggles · 23/02/2022 15:31

@Bintymcbintface

My word people here really are very close minded and uppity. I presume none of you have ever taken your DC to pantomimes etc that grotesque widow twanky being a horrible parody of a woman and all that. Drag isn't exclusively "adult entertainment" and the clothing wasn't particularly offensive, if they'd had giant boobs hanging out and a massive strap on then yeah I'd be pissed off. Besides that it's highly unlikely that a paid performer going into a primary school would be doing an explicit act unless they're complete idiots. Get the bees out of your bonnets, let go of those pearls and chill the fuck out
Nothing to do with clutching pearls, but I'd be fuming if scarce resources were spent on some bloke wearing a dress and make up prancing around in front of the kids. Waste of money and no benefit at all.
MsFogi · 23/02/2022 15:31

OP you absolutely need to raise a formal complaint and follow every stage of the school's complaint policy (ie each stage to ensure you get to being heard by the governors etc)

theDudesmummy · 23/02/2022 15:32

I would imagine that it is actually insulting and offensive to transpeople to conflate them with DQs. Some DQs may be trans. Many are not. It is not the same thing. DQ is an adult sexualised entertainment role, it is a job. Being a transperson isn't a role or a job. It is a gender identity. That is the whole point. (Disclaimer, I am neither trans nor a TRA and if any transperson or DQ wants to contradict this, go ahead and enlighten me).

Bintymcbintface · 23/02/2022 15:32

@CIaireFraser

I've seen women wear the same things that drag queens wear. Rather than seeing them as men taking the piss out of women, why not view them as someone with horrible fashion sense?

Is this for real?!

Yip, wander about any town/city and you'll see loads of people going about their day in outfits that make them look like they got dressed in the dark out of a dressing up box
Whatamesssss · 23/02/2022 15:34

@mummykel16

a person with dementia would be inappropriate as it might be scary or confusing for them to do something so out of their routine.

Children coming to our care home actually seemed to help the adults and the children, great to see

Really? that is great to hear. I just thought it might be upsetting for a dementia patient.

I really enjoyed the CH4 prog about a nursery class joining an elderly community. It was lovely and so mutually beneficial.

WonderfulYou · 23/02/2022 15:34

You seem to have mixed yourself up there. They are not talkiing about being trans but are somehow still talking about clothing being born in the wrong body!?!?!

Sorry if I haven’t explained myself well.

You can wear clothes belonging to the opposite sex and not be classed as transgender - that’s the message they’re trying to get across.

Too many kids think they must be born in the wrong body because they want to wear something different.

I think that’s a good message and I am not anti-transgender.

SamphiretheStickerist · 23/02/2022 15:36

I think you misunderstood me for most of that @VeryLongBeeeeep

eschew - disagree with, deliberately avoid using; abstain from

I agree with everything you said. I was talking specifically about the way that stereotypes frame the way that transmena dn women present themselves - the very stereotypes we hate and DQs epitomise!

But And if you believe transwomen do not wear hypersexualised clothing, you haven't been paying attention. I won't say more, other than perhaps take a look on the Transwidows threads for descriptions of what a certain subset of transwomen like to wear.

I will accede you are right there. I did mean the DQ level of hypersexualised, sequins, heels, little or no coverage etc. But didn't phrase it well.

Bintymcbintface · 23/02/2022 15:38

A form of entertainment about exclusivity is a waste of resources? Could it be that because "drag queens are everywhere right now" that schools are taking a different approach and using what's around in the media to help get messages across? I notice not one person complaining about my comment has mentioned the difference between panto and drag that makes one OK and not the other.

VeryLongBeeeeep · 23/02/2022 15:38

You can wear clothes belonging to the opposite sex and not be classed as transgender - that’s the message they’re trying to get across.

Stonewall includes crossdressers and drag queens under the trans umbrella.

Perhaps the message 'clothes don't maketh the man (or woman)' would be better conveyed by not using a group of people who request to be referred to as 'she / her / Miss' while dressed in drag?

SamphiretheStickerist · 23/02/2022 15:38

@WonderfulYou

You seem to have mixed yourself up there. They are not talkiing about being trans but are somehow still talking about clothing being born in the wrong body!?!?!

Sorry if I haven’t explained myself well.

You can wear clothes belonging to the opposite sex and not be classed as transgender - that’s the message they’re trying to get across.

Too many kids think they must be born in the wrong body because they want to wear something different.

I think that’s a good message and I am not anti-transgender.

OK! Then why wouldn't any transperson have been a good enough example? Or a besuited woman etc?

Why the hypersexualised version?

And I am not anti transgender either!

I AM anti TRA, Stonewall etc.

KneadingKitty · 23/02/2022 15:39

I wouldn't so much mind the drag queen themselves, but giving out their real stage name so they can be found online if they're "steamy" would be the thing that would make me angry.

mummykel16 · 23/02/2022 15:39

Covid ended all that, a real shame