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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Angel kidnapping

171 replies

WorkHardPlayHard1 · 22/02/2022 08:35

AIBU to be sick to the back teeth by this crime and the lenient sentences.

What can we do to change the law, the sentence and what to do with proven controlling members of society?

He is gonna come out and do the same no doubt. How can we stop this before it happens to womenkind again?

news.sky.com/story/amp/angel-lynn-family-of-teenager-who-was-thrown-out-of-van-call-for-tougher-sentences-for-her-kidnappers-12542792

Come on ladies, if this was the judge's daughter would this even happen?? I can't comprehend why the sentences are so lenient??

OP posts:
JetTail · 22/02/2022 14:35

Other examples include you're too thin. We was laughing about your ass in those jeans. Hahahahahahahahaha.

Note: I know that 'we was' is incorrect. That was something else wrong with me. 'You think you're so great cos you speak proper'

JetTail · 22/02/2022 14:37

@FAQs

It doesn’t say it in the link but another aggravating factor is they laughed and smirked through the trial and had to be pulled up on it by the judge. Bastards.
I would have expected nothing more. I'm sure that when details of how much her life was altered were being discussed, he was fucking delighted.
HeadPain · 22/02/2022 14:38

@HeadPain

"KookaburraSits: I read this story a week or two ago and had the same horrified reaction. I don't know what the solution is. There have been a few "woman jumps from balcony to escape male attacker" stories, where the woman dies or is badly injured too. This is the same thing - a woman who knows her life is in danger feels her only chance is to jump - and that's seen as her decision, and the man is bound up in other charges but not held responsible for those injuries. I despair."

"raspberryjamchicken:
Legally it is difficult because he is not considered responsible for her injuries in the sense that he physically caused them. However, they were sustained as she was trying to escape from a situation where he was holding her against her will and may have threatened her harm. He was indirectly responsible, even if he didn't directly cause them, but I'm not sure there is a legal precedent for that."

I'm interested in knowing about the law and legal precedent around this issue. I feel like the law needs to change if it doesn't take this into consideration and can't convict and sentence for it. (don't know if I wrote that in the correct legal terms but oh well hopefully people can work out what I mean)

Does anyone know about this then?

And what do we do with the knowledge of his history of violence towards her which the judge was "satisfied" had happened, but he wasn't convicted of.

JetTail · 22/02/2022 14:41

@HeadPain

There is a charge called Affray. This is where you have made someone fear for their life. I am guessing that they couldn't bring that charge without her testimony. Fucking bastard.

JetTail · 22/02/2022 14:43

It can't be manslaughter as she's not dead. If she had died, perhaps a manslaughter charge might have been brought. But yes, it's something that needs to be looked at perhaps. Injuries sustained while trying to escape? I don't think such a crime exists. Anywhere.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 22/02/2022 14:49

"Was it like a parent grabbing their toddler and carting them off when they insist on jumping in puddles (obviously she's an adult and it's totally inappropriate)- misguided, controlling, but not malicious.

A stranger grabbing a woman and carting her off is clearly intending harm- murder, rape, whatever.

A boyfriend may have intended to finish their argument, prove he was right, get her home where they can argue without her walking off.... all dickhead, controlling, absolutely unacceptable controlling behaviours"

Jesus wept.

Have you actually watched the video?

You may not mean to minimise his actions, but that's how it comes across

HeadPain · 22/02/2022 14:50

Thanks @JetTail

picklemewalnuts · 22/02/2022 14:55

As I said every time I posted, it's not ok to pick her up and cart her off.
As I said every time I posted, I think the sentence is far too low for the terrible results of this crime.

However picking her up and carting her off does not equal "intended/expected she would end up brain damaged and dependent/dead".

I don't know whether the sentence for kidnap should be higher, or if additional crimes should have been added to his tariff. The prosecution will have brought the charges they thought they could prove.

The behaviour of their mates afterwards, the abuse the family have received- the guys and their mates are clearly scum and should be behind bars.
The judge can only sentence for the crime committed, not the (possibly) unintentional consequences of it.

Isn't there a crime of reckless endangerment of some kind? He put her in a dangerous position, that might work.

Once more, for those too angry to hear what I'm trying to say- it's appalling and disgusting and that poor young woman and her family will be forever devastated by it, no sentence would be too sever, imo.

There must be some logic behind the initial sentence.

HeadPain · 22/02/2022 14:55

Sorry, this quote is from the s un, i know , I know, but it's just what I came across quickly. There's this issue too. Whether the sun is reliable I don't know. Well, I do know it's usually not, but they might be right about this.:

"Angel’s family said they are outraged that Bowskill got just two years for the kidnap — even though the offence carries a maximum sentence of life.

They said they planned to call for a review of the kidnap sentence, saying it was “unduly lenient”.

And they added they were surprised by the sentence when the judge seemed to recognise the serious consequences of the abduction.

Although it can carry a life term, kidnapping currently has no sentencing guidelines, which the family think worked in Bowskill’s favour."


"Farah Nazeer, chief executive of Women's Aid, said: “The fact that the perpetrator could be out so soon shows that we urgently need domestic abuse training for all judges.

“This sends out a dangerous message about how seriously we take violence against women in this country — judges need to send a clear message that domestic abuse will not be tolerated.""

"In his sentencing remarks, Judge Timothy Spencer QC told Bowskill at Leicester crown court: “You treated her in a vile way.

"She was belittled by you to a point where she must have felt worthless on a regular basis.”

But Judge Spencer said he had also taken into account his youth and immaturity when sentencing.

He said he agreed with Bowskill’s own barrister’s description of him as a “little boy in man’s shoes”."

Sorry again for the sun, but wtf... is this correct? : "THE judge blasted over the jail term given to Angel’s kidnapper has a history of bizarre sentencing.In August last year, judge Timothy Spencer QC freed a Far Right terrorist with the instructions: “Go and read the classics.”He was slammed by charity Hope Not Hate after instructing white supremacist Ben John, 22, who was found with bomb manuals, to read Jane Eyre and others.The judge told him: “Start with Pride And Prejudice and Dickens’ A Tale Of Two Cities. Shakespeare’s Twelfth Night”. He added: “Think about Hardy. Think about Trollope.”Earlier this month, the appeal court ruled extremist John must serve two years in prison."

"Chief executive of Women's Aid, Farah Nazeer, said: "This a devastating outcome for the family of Angel Lynn.

"The actions of the men involved show the entitlement they felt over Angel, who is seen being physically carried away in the video as they kidnap her.

"She was carried away as if she was a possession, which indicates their attitudes towards women.

"The court heard of a history of domestic abuse, and it is vital that this isn't minimised. Abusers frequently will try to manipulate and control what family and friends think.

"Time after time, we only have the abuser's version of events, but we do know the most dangerous time for a woman is when she tries to leave an abusive partner.

"This is statistically when most domestic homicides happen, with three women being killed by a current or former partner every fortnight in the UK.

"Since coercive control became illegal in England and Wales at the end of 2015, we have campaigned for greater awareness of the crime.

"However, sentences needs to reflect the severity of the crime for this law to be effective.

"Judges need to send a clear and consistent message that domestic abuse and misogyny will not be tolerated.""

picklemewalnuts · 22/02/2022 14:56

I'm not going to post any more- I clearly am not managing to express my repugnance for what happened.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 22/02/2022 14:58

another aggravating factor is they laughed and smirked through the trial and had to be pulled up on it by the judge

They should have extra time just for that. It, and the harassment if Angel's family by their families, shows us exactly what these two are like.

Hoppinggreen · 22/02/2022 15:01

@JetTail

These are some examples of emails I received from a man I finished with in December.

"Stalking? Really don’t flatter yourself." (in reference to me telling me he was stalking me by driving
my my house and sitting watching my house while he was supposed to be working and then
eventually gaining entry to my house)

"you are an object and I felt nothing probably like the other blokes that fuck you, you put out to easy"

"does he actually know what a nut job you are and how unstable you are?" (in reference to my
brother)

"Haha I was never at work when I fucked you, I’d finished it was just a way I didn’t have to stay" (in
reference to me saying that he had visited me on several occasions while he was supposed to be
working).

Sorry to have to break it to you but this thread isn’t about you
Pleasedontputthatthere · 22/02/2022 15:01

@Lockheart

For everyone saying "it is murder, why wasn't he tried for murder / attempted murder":

The greater the crime, the greater the burden of proof on the prosecutor. You would need to prove an intent to kill beyond reasonable doubt and remember, "oh it's obvious he didn't have good intentions" is not proof.

They were already unable to secure a conviction of grievous bodily harm.

If they had tried him for murder and NOT kidnap etc, odds are he would have walked away a free man and would not be in prison now.

As it was, they tried him for crimes they knew they could prove beyond reasonable doubt. And he is now in prison.

This just isn't true, he couldn't be charged with murder as she is still alive.

The burden of proof for all criminal charges are beyond reasonable doubt.

To be found guilty of murder a person needs to intend to kill or cause serious injury.

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 22/02/2022 15:02

She deserves better. If it is not a crime when someone escapes from their abuser and sustains injuries in the process, then this should be the case that sets that precedent.

That poor young woman.

Choppingonions · 22/02/2022 15:06

It's horrendous. I feel if someone tries to escape an abduction the perpetrators are entirely responsible for any harm that comes to them as their intent was to place them in that position. Whether she knew the attacker shouldn't have been relevant.

HeadPain · 22/02/2022 15:11

@pickmewalnuts
"Isn't there a crime of reckless endangerment of some kind? He put her in a dangerous position, that might work."

Interesting. Do we have that in England then?

Yeh he was found not guilty of "grievous bodily harm with intent" Could there be/have been a charge without intent? Why didn't they bring that charge? I know nothing about law. I also don't understand the part where during sentencing the judge says Chay Bowskill was violent towards Angel Lynn on at least two occasions during the relationship, causing bruising, but he wasn't charged or convicted of that?

CurbsideProphet · 22/02/2022 15:12

@HoldMeCloseImTryingToDanceHere thank you for the link, I wasn't sure where to find it.

HeadPain · 22/02/2022 15:14

@SheldonesqueTheBstard

She deserves better. If it is not a crime when someone escapes from their abuser and sustains injuries in the process, then this should be the case that sets that precedent.

That poor young woman.

Yep
HeadPain · 22/02/2022 15:14

@Choppingonions

It's horrendous. I feel if someone tries to escape an abduction the perpetrators are entirely responsible for any harm that comes to them as their intent was to place them in that position. Whether she knew the attacker shouldn't have been relevant.
And yes to this
HeadPain · 22/02/2022 15:21

This reply has been deleted

This post has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

HeadPain · 22/02/2022 15:24

There's a gofundme "Support Angel Lynn’s recovery", with £111,731. Seems legit but I can't guarantee. I think Mumsnet are checking.

LakieLady · 22/02/2022 15:31

@WouldIwasShookspeared

"The prosecutor said Angel had been pushed out of the van, but the jury did not convict Bowskill of causing grievous bodily harm"

How the fuck is pushing someone out of a van travelling at 60mph not the crime of attempted murder let alone gbh?

I noticed that on news bulletins on tv, they were careful to avoid saying she was pushed (and the Sky piece says "thrown" in the 2nd para, but "fell" further down).

I suspect that the jury weren't wholly satisfied that she was forced out of the van as opposed to accidentally falling or even jumping while trying to escape.

WeAreTheHeroes · 22/02/2022 15:32

Presumably Bowskill admitted in court that he had hit Angel on two occasions, but these two assaults weren't counts on the indictment.

LakieLady · 22/02/2022 15:40

@SartresSoul

The abduction is bad enough but the fact she is now likely permanently brain damaged means this should be a charge of attempted murder. Seven years is not enough but it’s a usual sentence for manslaughter even when a person has been killed in the most horrific manner. My Aunt was murdered in the late 90s, she had her throat slit by her boyfriend during an argument and was left to bleed to death. The boyfriend was given an 8 year sentence for manslaughter because he didn’t preplan slitting her throat. He was out after 4 years.
Doesn't attempted murder require a jury to be satisfied that the defendant intended to kill the victim? That's not easy to prove.

Maybe there should be an offence of "causing death by actions involved in kidnapping" or something.

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 22/02/2022 15:44

I suspect that the jury weren't wholly satisfied that she was forced out of the van as opposed to accidentally falling or even jumping while trying to escape.

And sadly therein lies the problem.

Given that she was in there against her will and there is no way of knowing what happened, then it should default to causing her injury.

If she fell out ‘accidentally’ then she wouldn’t have fallen if she hadn’t been placed there. So it should be the fault of the person who put her there.

If she jumped? The person who was with her must have made that a more attractive option. No one would jump out of a vehicle at speed if they felt they weren’t in danger.

If someone pushed her out of a vehicle at speed? Then they deserve a lengthy sentence.

Whatever happened, she is in no place to say. But make no mistake, one person is at fault for the devastating injuries.

And it isn’t her.