Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Angel kidnapping

171 replies

WorkHardPlayHard1 · 22/02/2022 08:35

AIBU to be sick to the back teeth by this crime and the lenient sentences.

What can we do to change the law, the sentence and what to do with proven controlling members of society?

He is gonna come out and do the same no doubt. How can we stop this before it happens to womenkind again?

news.sky.com/story/amp/angel-lynn-family-of-teenager-who-was-thrown-out-of-van-call-for-tougher-sentences-for-her-kidnappers-12542792

Come on ladies, if this was the judge's daughter would this even happen?? I can't comprehend why the sentences are so lenient??

OP posts:
RedCandyApple · 22/02/2022 13:33

I don’t get the comments about her being slim and pretty either, like it wouldn’t have been so bad if she wasn’t slim or pretty? Clearly some people think it’s more sad because she was pretty. Why does it matter what she looked like. Some of these comments Hmm

LemonJuiceFromConcentrate · 22/02/2022 13:35

@viques

Kudos to her mother who while taking on the huge burden of caring for Angel is the one who has pushed and pushed for the sentence to be reviewed.

Flowers for Angels mum.

Is there anything MNers can collectively do for her? I mean, like a supportive gesture, apart from voicing support generally?

I guess I’m thinking about the woolly hugs blankets but that’s not really applicable is it, those are normally for MNers who are present on the forum to sort of consent to it as an idea.

Enraged by this case and I can hardly begin to imagine the complexity of her day-to-day emotions about while she cares for her daughter.

Hoppinggreen · 22/02/2022 13:35

Men attacking women is not down to their looks
It’s down to them being an abusive arsehole
When An unattractive woman in a low paid job with no qualifications is harmed/killed by a man it is no less tragic than a “Barbie” like woman with a bright future suffering the same fate
Focussing on her looks is very Daily Mail and you should be ashamed of yourself

Janesmom · 22/02/2022 13:38

@Houstonjane

This is a terrible case, the poor girl must of been terrified. Now her life, full of so much promise, has been destroyed by these scum. Once again the law fails women badly.
Fail to see why the law fails women. The sentencing guidelines that apply to bodily harm apply equally to men and women.

You may not agree with the guidelines but I really don’t think gender is relevant.

picklemewalnuts · 22/02/2022 13:39

@Brefugee no, totally not saying that. I'm saying when a stranger grabs a woman and puts her in a van, his intent is undeniably further harm.

When a man grabs his girlfriend, it's not obvious that he has further harm in mind. I'm not saying it's ok, it's absolutely not, it's a crime and traumatic in itself. It doesn't mean that he intended further harm though. He may have, he may not, you can't tell.

Sportslady44 · 22/02/2022 13:39

its appaulling and the family are still being abusive, how would they like it if it was the other way round.

JetTail · 22/02/2022 13:39

Oh gosh. You need to understand WHY they so very often will target a woman's looks. Jealousy. If I can't have you, nobody will. So they either attempt to murder you or often, to destroy that which makes you attractive to other men. I know what I'm talking about unfortunately.

HeadPain · 22/02/2022 13:39

"KookaburraSits:
I read this story a week or two ago and had the same horrified reaction. I don't know what the solution is. There have been a few "woman jumps from balcony to escape male attacker" stories, where the woman dies or is badly injured too. This is the same thing - a woman who knows her life is in danger feels her only chance is to jump - and that's seen as her decision, and the man is bound up in other charges but not held responsible for those injuries. I despair."

"raspberryjamchicken:
Legally it is difficult because he is not considered responsible for her injuries in the sense that he physically caused them. However, they were sustained as she was trying to escape from a situation where he was holding her against her will and may have threatened her harm. He was indirectly responsible, even if he didn't directly cause them, but I'm not sure there is a legal precedent for that."

I'm interested in knowing about the law and legal precedent around this issue. I feel like the law needs to change if it doesn't take this into consideration and can't convict and sentence for it. (don't know if I wrote that in the correct legal terms but oh well hopefully people can work out what I mean)

Brefugee · 22/02/2022 13:44

It's not fucking irrelevant. Her life was destroyed! A beautiful young woman with everything going for her. And now? What is she now?

it is irrelevant. Does that mean if she looked like the back end of a bus it wouldn't be quite so bad?

As for the idiotic posting about "we don't know his intention ... parent / toddler" tripe. Pack it in.

She obviously didn't want to get in that van with him. Stop. Making. Excuses. For. Male. Violence. Against. Women.

Brefugee · 22/02/2022 13:46

well, @picklemewalnuts you may think it's fine for your boyfriend to pick you up against your will and drive off with you in a van, but the vast majority of people think that is crossing a line.
And in fact, the law said so too because he's been convicted of kidnap.

Statements like yours diminish the malevolent act and are dangerous nonsense.

UnevenBooks · 22/02/2022 13:49

Even if she jumped from the van herself.... How scared for your life do you have to be to think that jumping from a van going 60mph is the safer option? She was clearly fearing for her life either way.

Notmyfirstusername · 22/02/2022 13:49

I think that there needs to be a new criminal offence of attempted manslaughter by a domestic partner to cover domestic violence incidents such as this.
It’s reasonable for the poor woman to believe her life was in danger which is why she escaped from a van at speed, even if the scum that carried it out had no intention to kill her just scare her, so couldn’t be charged with attempted murder under current legislation.

The new offence could apply purely to domestic relationships, as at the moment, whether we like it or not, being in a prior or current relationship with someone allows these men to get away with seriously injuring women that would not be allowed if the same actions were committed by

HeadPain · 22/02/2022 13:50

@LemonJuiceFromConcentrate "Is there anything MNers can collectively do for her? I mean, like a supportive gesture, apart from voicing support generally?

I guess I’m thinking about the woolly hugs blankets but that’s not really applicable is it, those are normally for MNers who are present on the forum to sort of consent to it as an idea.

Enraged by this case and I can hardly begin to imagine the complexity of her day-to-day emotions about while she cares for her daughter."

Apparently there is a fundraising page, if that's what you might consider, don't think the article links to it though www.itv.com/news/central/2022-02-17/over-93000-raised-by-family-of-kidnapped-angel-lynn

KookaburraSits · 22/02/2022 13:53

Fail to see why the law fails women. The sentencing guidelines that apply to bodily harm apply equally to men and women.

You may not agree with the guidelines but I really don’t think gender is relevant.

It's sex, not gender. And I do wish people wouldn't confuse equity with equality. Treating men and women equally isn't in women's interests given the default is always male.

Hoppinggreen · 22/02/2022 13:53

@JetTail

Oh gosh. You need to understand WHY they so very often will target a woman's looks. Jealousy. If I can't have you, nobody will. So they either attempt to murder you or often, to destroy that which makes you attractive to other men. I know what I'm talking about unfortunately.
Well I am not as attractive as you apparently so by your theory I have never been assaulted or abused by a man. I am sorry that you and so many other women have suffered at the hands of men but you really are embarrassing yourself now
SleepingStandingUp · 22/02/2022 13:53

Was it like a parent grabbing their toddler and carting them off when they insist on jumping in puddles (obviously she's an adult and it's totally inappropriate)- misguided, controlling, but not malicious.
Are you high????
You think a grown man carting off an adult they know against their will isn't malicious?? She might just have been a naughty little girl who didn't so as she was bid. Perhaps she needed her botty smacking or TV time to be cut down. You know, instead of being carted off and so in fear that she was pushed or fell from the vehicle effectively ending her life?? And if he was jsit trying to make the naughty little girl be a good girl and do as she ought, surely he'd have stopped the fucking vehicle and helped her.

Fcuk38 · 22/02/2022 13:54

I live in Leicestershire and had only heard of this case when it came to court a few weeks ago.
I don’t think it’s bad the media attention until
Now because it happened 2020 so when Covid was in full swing. It boils my blood that poor girl is unrecognisable.

viques · 22/02/2022 13:56

@WeAreTheHeroes

*She was either pushed. Or she jumped at she feared for her life.*

Or did she fall out because the door wasn't properly shut? I haven't seen or heard the evidence presented in court so it's impossible to know.

What we do know is:

She did not get into the van voluntarily

After she fell/was pushed out of the van travelling at 60 miles an hour the van did not stop.

Nor did they call emergency services I think.

CurbsideProphet · 22/02/2022 13:58

Such an upsetting story, especially knowing that his family are harassing and threatening female members of Angel's family.
I thought BBC Breakfast have been very sensitive in reporting the story, especially this morning when Angel's mum and aunt were live with them.
I want to find the fundraising link to add my support.

picklemewalnuts · 22/02/2022 14:00

@Brefugee that's very clearly not what I said at all. Hogwash.

Read more carefully.

UnevenBooks · 22/02/2022 14:01

I think pickles is just looking at things from the burden of proof aspect. The way things are legally, they can't prove he intended to kill her or even to beat her. They can prove she was kidnapped and he was abusive/coercive, that's all. Unfortunately, juries have to consider even the smallest doubt, which is exactly what pickles just did.

The toddler/parent thing was off, but yes they couldn't prove if he trapped her in the van to continue the argument like a narc, they can't prove anything he might have said or threatened her with, despite us all knowing there would need to be a reason she decided to jump (if she wasn't pushed - unclear). Sad

WetLookKnitwear · 22/02/2022 14:03

7 years for that, bloody hell.

ChuckBerrysBoots · 22/02/2022 14:04

Agree with your posts here @Lockheart especially about the relevance of the relative attractiveness of the victim. Out of interest, if it was proven in court that he pushed her out of the van, can the court take her injuries into account at all? Can it even be an aggravating factor in sentencing?

FAQs · 22/02/2022 14:04

@WorkHardPlayHard1 a lot was done a few weeks ago, petitions were raised and the link to request a sentence review was shared, I shared it a lot on all the news sites, it is being reviewed.

JetTail · 22/02/2022 14:04

It doesn't matter why he kidnapped her! It matters only that he kidnapped her! Sheesh